Meta-Blog

SEARCH QandO

Email:
Jon Henke
Bruce "McQ" McQuain
Dale Franks
Bryan Pick
Billy Hollis
Lance Paddock
MichaelW

BLOGROLL QandO

 
 
Recent Posts
The Ayers Resurrection Tour
Special Friends Get Special Breaks
One Hour
The Hope and Change Express - stalled in the slow lane
Michael Steele New RNC Chairman
Things that make you go "hmmmm"...
Oh yeah, that "rule of law" thing ...
Putting Dollar Signs in Front Of The AGW Hoax
Moving toward a 60 vote majority?
Do As I Say ....
 
 
QandO Newsroom

Newsroom Home Page

US News

US National News
Politics
Business
Science
Technology
Health
Entertainment
Sports
Opinion/Editorial

International News

Top World New
Iraq News
Mideast Conflict

Blogging

Blogpulse Daily Highlights
Daypop Top 40 Links

Regional

Regional News

Publications

News Publications

 
QuotObama: Zero Sum Games
Posted by: Jon Henke on Thursday, April 10, 2008

Barack Obama says "stagnant wages and global competition" makes people think opportunity is a "zero sum game"...
[I]n an era of stagnant wages and global competition, opportunity comes to be seen as a zero sum game, in which your dreams come at my expense.
Michelle Obama says we're playing a zero sum game...
"The truth is, in order to get things like universal health care and a revamped education system, then someone is going to have to give up a piece of their pie so that someone else can have more."
There's not much global competition for hospital administrator jobs. Maybe it's her stagnant wages.
 
TrackBacks
Return to Main Blog Page
 
 

Previous Comments to this Post 

Comments
Just to repeat my point from McQ’s thread, these maroons are channeling Huey Long’s "share the wealth" rhetoric, it seems.

Scary stuff, indeed.
 
Written By: CR
URL: http://
More evidence that neither of them have the faintest notion about how our economy works. The message they are trumpeting is that if I win, you must lose.
 
Written By: the wolf
URL: http://
Barack Obama says "stagnant wages and global competition" makes people think opportunity is a "zero sum game"...
NAFTA, withdraw troops from Iraq, didn’t hear those comments while in church, etc. Obama has proven time and time again that he simply says things over and over that he doesn’t believe. If he thinks his audience wants to hear it, he’ll say it. Who knows what to make of the above? Does he believe it? Is it simply rhetoric for the well-paid, college educated Democrats that are voting for him?
 
Written By: Is
URL: http://
So the question....who’s dreams are the Obamas trampling, with their wealth and success? Do they feel bad about it in the slightest? Does Obama even care he’s a dream killer?

 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
Are you saying the two comments: the opportunity can grow the pie, and that new government programs require more tax money, are mutually exclusive or contradictory. They aren’t.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
It’s either a zero sum game, or it isn’t...

It’s like the left hand doesn’t know what the further left hand is doing...
 
Written By: Scott Jacobs
URL: http://
Except, of course, Michelle Obama never said that opportunity was a zero-sum game. She just noted that government programs will cost money. Both statements are true. Are you denying the truth of either Barack’s or Michelle’s statement?
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
Michelle Obama never said that opportunity was a zero-sum game
Boris, do you even know what the term means? You can’t possibly...
someone is going to have to give up a piece of their pie so that someone else can have more
That’s about as good a definition as you can get from a non-econ student.

If you want to give the feds more money, you are free to do so. I don’t with to, however, so they can keep their greedy lil mitts off my damn pie...
 
Written By: Scott Jacobs
URL: http://
I believe the term is "making money".

Not "stealing your neighbor’s pie".

Maybe she is unfamiliar with how the multiplier effect works?

It’s a shame that never came up during her Princeton grind.

So much for general education.
 
Written By: Will K
URL: http://
More evidence that neither of them have the faintest notion about how our economy works.
Well, I’m pretty sure the morons who would vote for Obama don’t have a clue. But he might.

 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
Well, when I think "stealing my neighbor’s pie", I generally am not thinking in terms of taxes . . .
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
Erb is really going in a "meaning of is" direction with this.

Are all Democrats lying lawyers?
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
Scerb, maybe you didn’t ever have a chance to eat pie when you were a kid, but usually they are baked in a fixed pan, and cannot grow by themselves.

This is why my political science professors taught me that a zero-sum game is LIKE A PIE whereas non-zero sum games are not. This is the exact analogy made by educators all over the world to explain the concept of zero-sum versus non-zero-sum. (or am I wrong here folks?)

Michelle Obama is a Ivy League lawyer. She knows this or should.
 
Written By: Harun
URL: http://
Sorry, wikipedia uses the example of a CAKE in the first paragraph explaining what a zero sum game is. My bad. Maybe in Maine they use the example of cake, and think pie is some sort of ever growing pastry that allows everyone to gain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-zero_sum_game
 
Written By: Harun
URL: http://
Obama seems to have opened a "Pandoras Box" with the Jews.
 
Written By: Neo
URL: http://
pie is some sort of ever growing pastry
if only it were...
 
Written By: Is
URL: http://
Again, are either points wrong: opportunity is not a zero sum game, but if we’re going to have new expensive government programs we’ll have to raise taxes. Because you guys seem to want to think these are contradictory claims, but since Michelle wasn’t talking about opportunity, it’s clear they are not. You can’t even admit that?! I guess if you want to try slime and ooze to avoid admitting that it’s not surprising you’re throwing up smokescreens to avoid admitting the obvious: that the Iraq war has been a failure and a fiasco. You just can’t admit to being wrong on anything!
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
"I believe the term is ’making money’."
That’s exactly right, and that is categorically different from stealing it. Note well that when Doktor Erb says this...
"Except, of course, Michelle Obama never said that opportunity was a zero-sum game. She just noted that government programs will cost money. Both statements are true."
...his fondest hope is that nobody will question the equivocation.

Harun:
"Scerb, maybe you didn’t ever have a chance to eat pie when you were a kid, but usually they are baked in a fixed pan, and cannot grow by themselves."
I think there are things about the Professorboy that you might not know. For instance, he is personally experienced at feeding the downtrodden masses with other peoples’ pies.
 
Written By: Billy Beck
URL: http://www.two—four.net/weblog.php
You just can’t admit to being wrong on anything!
That’s an apt self-description.

Tell us all this: when Michelle Obama said, "....someone is going to have to give up a piece of their pie so that someone else can have more," how is that NOT a reflection of a zero-sum situation? She could just as easily have said, "We need to make the pie bigger so that there are more slices to go around," could she not?
 
Written By: Steverino
URL: http://
Let’s just bake more pies. Sure the size of one pie is fixed, but the number of pies is variable.
This is why my political science professors taught me that a zero-sum game is LIKE A PIE whereas non-zero sum games are not. This is the exact analogy made by educators all over the world to explain the concept of zero-sum versus non-zero-sum. (or am I wrong here folks?)
Is her use of the word pie really enough for all of y’all to follow noddingly along as McQ shifts the basis of his whine about Michelle Obama’s comment that somebody will have to pay for unversal healthcare from "that dirty commie wants to take your pie" to "if somebody has to pay, that’s zero-sum. Gotcha!"?!?

Regardless of the merits of her pie, she is describing paying for federal programs, and Obama is describing "opportunity". These are not all-time-same-same. If any of you think this juxtoposition of quotes is some kind of gotcha, allow me to suggest that you go to the grocery store and ask the helpful people there to assist you in finding an orange and an apple.

On to the pie. Surely your game theory 101 classes told you that dividing a pie is an example of a zero sum game. One pie, n players. Nicht Wahr? In Michelle Obama’s comment each of us has a pie.
someone is going to have to give up a piece of their pie so that someone else can have more
Is giving up a piece of one’s pie sooooo inapt a description of paying taxes?

And Don, you’re watching too much porn. Either that or it’s too much Joan Jett. And the Blackhearts.
 
Written By: Retief
URL: http://
On the plus side, at least she isn’t giving us that stuff about how the plan will pay for itself through elimination of waste, fraud, abuse, and profits. Of course some think that my listing of profits is redundant.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
Retief,

Yes, the idea that someone has to give up their piece of pie so that someone else can have more is a very inapt analogy to paying taxes because it assumes there is one pie and that someone has "too much." I think as kids we all understand that the cutting of pies should be extremely fair, and thus her statement leads to thinking that its right to tax people to achieve "fairness" in the size of pie slices, when taxation is not about that, really, especially regarding healthcare.

Even assuming we went to national health care, the extra taxes are not designed to make incomes "fairly distributed" but to pay for health care. That’s a very different issue. If you think its really about equality, then let’s drop the discussion of health and move straight to transfer payments.

Also, it is very important for people to understand that you can have no tax increases, increased spending, and still not run a larger deficit. How can you do that? Why, increase the size of the economy! But that’s no fun for socialists, because it would involve thinking of ways to help private industry rather than milking it to pay for transfer payments.
 
Written By: Harun
URL: http://
you can have no tax increases, increased spending, and still not run a larger deficit. How can you do that? Why, increase the size of the economy! But that’s no fun for socialists
Interesting, interesting. So, you want to suggest that universal national helthcare can be paid for by the increase in tax revenues due to economic growth? Are you sure about that?

Is your complaint about the pie that she is inappropriately introducing the idea that taxes ought to be fair, or contribute to fairness? You don’t like fairness or Apple Pie now? Yikes.
 
Written By: Retief
URL: http://
that taxes ought to be fair, or contribute to fairness
"....someone is going to have to give up a piece of their pie so that someone else can have more"

Let’s change that to the item in question - enough pies....
here we are-

Let’s swap some words around....
"....someone is going to have to give up a piece of their healthcare so that someone else can have more"? No, that can’t be right....

"....someone is going to have to give up some of their money, so that someone else can have more" - huh, that sounds wrong too.

You’re right, let’s pretend she’s talking about fair taxes.


 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
iqjgqit http://wucuqb.com ftlxva iqjgqit ymamsn [URL=http://idyowi.com]fqxxekp[/URL]
 
Written By: kpsuwtt
URL: http://nyailw.com

 
Add Your Comment
  NOTICE: While we don't wish to censor your thoughts, we do blacklist certain terms of profanity or obscenity. This is not to muzzle you, but to ensure that the blog remains work-safe for our readers. If you wish to use profanity, simply insert asterisks (*) where the vowels usually go. Your meaning will still be clear, but our readers will be able to view the blog without worrying that content monitoring will get them in trouble when reading it.
Comments for this entry are closed.
Name:
Email:
URL:
HTML Tools:
Bold Italic Blockquote Hyperlink
Comment:
   
 
Vicious Capitalism

Divider

Buy Dale's Book!
Slackernomics by Dale Franks

Divider

Divider