The "Debate" (update) Posted by: McQ
on Wednesday, April 16, 2008
Yeah, the quote marks are a intentional. I'm going to take one for the team and watch the "debate" tonight so you don't have too. But these two are so alike there's not much, in terms of issues, that's going to be debated tonight.
So, instead of watching what I'd prefer - Braves v Marlins (I'll put ESPN up in one of my FireFox tabs and check in), I'm going to watch the political follies instead. I'll be remarking mostly on the show, not the substance, because, as mentioned, for them, there's just not enough difference to matter.
Until 8pm, excuse me while I pop some popcorn and get ready for the circus to come on.
8pm: Let the games begin. Obama uses the "frustration" line. Preemptive strike?
Clinton uses essentially the same line - the promise of the founders is at risk!
True, if either one of these two make it to the Oval office
[OK maybe I don't want to be watching the Braves and Marlins after all - Marlins 3-1, bottom 3rd.]
8:10pm - Charlie Gibson trying to force a "dream ticket" with a Cumo quote about each of them promising to take the other as VP. What has that to do with anything at this point? Both act as though the cat has their tongue. Great start, Charlie.
Both avoid the question - wow, big surprise. Both lapse into modified stump speeches. A good 10 minutes wasted.
8:15pm - Ah, the "bitter" quote. Oh, oh, it was a mangled statement. Jeez one sentence and then the the reversion to the stump speech. Hillary looks like a wooden soldier.
Ah, Hillary is the granddaughter of a factory worker in Scranton - did you know that? And he was a member of the Methodist church there. Now she says Barack is full of it when he talks about people "clinging" to religion and guns.
But, per Hill, they're still "frustrated". Reversion to stump speech.
Oooo ... "cauldrons" - does Hillary really want to use that metaphor? She's going to put McCain through it though.
Obama - "I'm not elitist and certainly not condescending to people of faith". Hmmm ... others disagree, like Clinton and half of PA.
Wow, did you know Obama has a large number of sportsman and gun owners in his state and they support him?
You make one mistake and others (Clinton) just beat it to death. [Welcome to the big leagues] - and then reversion to stump speech.
8:22pm - This is a much more tense "debate". Thus far sparring and mini stump speeches. I'm just waiting for something to explode.
Gibson asks about Wright and why Obama rescinded an invitation to his announcement. Why? What did he know that caused him to do that?
Well, see, he didn't see those particular things that were on YouTube. But, Wright says controversial things [well, yeah] and he never answered the question as to why he rescinded Wright's invitation, which means he knew something was up.
Hillary hammers the point that she couldn't have stayed in that church - you choose your pastor - you can't choose your family, but you can choose your pastor.
Gibson brings it back to the rescinded invitation, Obama waves it off.
Obama's defense? Well, Hillary's pastor said Wright did good work, the church does good work and thus that outweighs the racism and anti-Americanism and we should just forget it.
8:33pm - Obama is definitely on defense - big time and Clinton is taking every opening and opportunity to keep him on the defensive. She just raised the association of Wright with Farrakhan and the Hamas church bulletin.
Sniper fire time!
I'm embarrassed, I've apologized and yatta, yatta. Let's see if Obama goes after her.
Oh, man, she actually tried the "I'll get more sleep" bit.
Obama just doesn't have the political killer instinct - he's letting her off the hook. And now he's lecturing, lecturing, lecturing and we're back to the stump speech.
8:39 - Mr. Obama - Why won't you wear the flag?
"I revere the American flag and this country". Thus far total avoidance - we're into the Obama family story.
"I show my patriotism by how I treat veterans", etc. The woman who asked the question said she wasn't questioning his patriotism with the question. So why aren't you wearing the flag?
Finally - flag pin. "Manufactured issue", "distracts", not important, etc. Total avoidance.
George S. brings up Bill Ayers (Weather Underground).
Lives in my neighborhood, prof. of English, etc. It's ok because he's friends with Tom Coburn who once said that it might be a good idea to give the death penalty to abortionists. OK, let's see if I got this right - a terror bomber is morally the same as a guy who suggests that abortionists are murderers.
8:54pm - It's Iraq time.
Hillary - do you plan on your withdrawal schedule regardless of the situation on the ground even if the commanders say it would be a disaster?
Civilian control of the military, by gosh.
[Her answer is just foolish.]
She's droning on but in reality, it's just an abysmal answer to anyone with an ounce of sense.
Obama is going to be out of Iraq in 16 months.
Ah, he won't listen to the general, because the CiC sets the mission and that's just what he'll do. So it isn't up to the general to do that, they just follow his orders. But he'll listen to the generals about tactics, but he's not about to listen to them concerning the mission.
Woof. History begins with Obama's first day in office and Iraq's situation at that time just doesn't count for much of anything.
He doesn't understand the point Gen Cody made about the strategic reserve.
9:00pm - Obama: "I will do whatever it takes to keep Iran from getting nuclear weapons" [but he won't give that same leeway to the present president - got it.].
Obama - an attack on Israel would be unacceptable.
Clinton - Iran. Same line about Israel (massive retaliation). But Ms. Clinton thinks she can use "skillful diplomacy" with "the region" to forge an agreement with Iran. But, but, she won't meet with Iran's president. Heh ...
"We cannot allow Iran to become a nuclear power". Same comment to her that I made about Obama.
9:06 - Clinton - no new taxes for people making under $250k a year. [Can't wait till that nonsense is laid to waste.] An absolute commitment to that pledge.
Me too, says Obama AND I'm going to give others tax breaks on their withholding, etc., etc., etc. But not a word on his planned spending spree. Back to the stump speech.
But capital gains tax? Yeah, let's raise it for "purposes of fairness". By gosh we'll get those top hedge fund managers (oh, and the 100 million who own stocks in this country). He doesn't want "oppressive" taxation, he wants "fair" taxation. And he can't have those nasty hedge fund managers getting away with all of that money.
Now he's giving lip service to PAYGO.
9:15pm - Clinton with the line of the night: "I don't want to take another dime of taxes from anyone, but ... [fill in the blank with your favorite liberal fantasy].
What a freakin' load. Oh, and she won't raise cap gains above the Clinton level (that, if I'm not mistaken, doubles it).
OK, maybe Obama got the line of the night - "You don't get somethin' for nothin'" speaking of why he has to raise taxes. Can't believe pieces of pie weren't mentioned.
9:27 - Gun rights: Clinton - the liberal favorite "assault weapon ban", she's for it. She "respects" the 2nd Amendment, but shes going to keep guns out of "the wrong hands".
Obama - just because you have a right that doesn't mean the government can't constrain it. [Well then obviously, sir, you don't know what the word "right" means.]
Do you still favor registering of guns? Obama avoids answering the question. "Get beyond the politics and figure out what is working". Another way to say that is to heck with your right, government has a right to do what it thinks it needs to do.
Clinton - do you support DC gun ban? Waffle, waffle, waffle. Sensible regulations ok, she thinks. "I favor what works in New York". IOW, yes, governments can abrogate the right to bear arms if they think it is a good idea.
9:37 - Gas prices - Clinton, "We're going to investigate these gas prices". No more oil in Strategic Petroleum Reserve. Windfall profits tax if we have to have a gas tax holiday.
Ye gods. Windfall taxes to offset federal fuel taxes, which means, of course, an increase in gas prices to make up for the windfall profit taxes. Amazing.
Obama - Winfall taxes. Increase car mileage standards. 150 billion investment in alt power [wonder where that money will come from?]. Same old song. How long have we been "investing" in alt energy? Since Jimmy Carter's presidency?
9:42 - Bush bashing time.
9:48 - Superdelegates. How will you appeal to them?
Stump speeches. Bashing big business, frustration, shambles, war, no trust, gloom/doom, etc.
Really folks, I've taken enough of this. The Braves are headed into the top of the 9th down one run and I'm much more interested in that than the same old same old that we've heard for 15 months and are going to hear for another 7 months.
Obama - just because you have a right that doesn’t mean the government can’t constrain it. [Well then obviously, sir, you don’t know what the word "right" means.]
Every right is constrained. You have freedom of religion, but that doesn’t mean you can rely on faith healers to heal your children. You have freedom of speech, but you can still be sued for libel, slander, or inciting a riot. You have freedom of speech, but you can’t tell an enemy state secrets. You have a right to bear arms, but you can’t have a neighborhood nuclear weapon.
Horrific "hit job" on Obama last night. Fortunately for America, "Charles" and George got hit by their own bullets.
It’s not that I think of George or "Charles" as intellectual journalists in the first place. But what I find reprehensible is the effect such trash-talking and insinuating questions by suppossed reputable journalists will have on the on-going election campaign dialogue.
With our economy, environment, and Constitution under seize from more than one quarter, to be asking inane, insulting questions such as the wearing of U.S. flag lapel pins as a marker of patriotism will surely become a classic case study in the role of corporate mass media’s role in the demise of our ability to arrive at any kind of consensus in solving the epic issues confronting the U.S., and the world.
"Charles" and George have made it into American folklore as the avatars of what happens when corporations decide who they want elected, and on what basis those leaders will be selected.
Shame on them both. I will now watch David Gregory at 6:30 PM. (I have never taken George S. seriously so I already find him irrelevant to my getting my news.)
I can watch opposing views being expressed in a civil manner. I will not abide an attempted political massacre by the corporate hired guns.
And you thought MSNBC treated Clinton with respect during the debates on their network? The media ahs been in a swoon over Obama, or should I say The Saviour, ever since the man took Iowa. Finally someone in the media is showing some cojones and asking The Savior questions about Ayers and other associates. His resume is a blank piece of paper so it is fair game to go after this aspect of his background.
Note: That’s not to say that Charles Gibson and George Stephanopolous were anything but clownish in their efforts to seem credible.