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Obama and Ayres
Posted by: McQ on Wednesday, April 16, 2008

Question:
George STEPHANOPOULOS: A gentleman named William Ayers. He was part of the Weather Underground in the 1970s. They bombed the Pentagon, the Capitol, and other buildings. He's never apologized for that.

And, in fact, on 9/11, he was quoted in the New York Times saying, I don't regret setting bombs. I feel we didn't do enough. An early organizing meeting for your State Senate campaign was held at his house and your campaign has said you are friendly.

Can you explain that relationship for the voters and explain to Democrats why it won't be a problem?
Answer:
OBAMA: George, but this is an example of what I'm talking about. This is a guy who lives in my neighborhood, who's a professor of English in Chicago who I know and who I have not received some official endorsement from. He's not somebody who I exchange ideas from on a regular basis.

And the notion that somehow as a consequence of me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was 8 years old, somehow reflects on me and my values doesn't make much sense, George.

The fact is that I'm also friendly with Tom Coburn, one of the most conservative Republicans in the United States Senate, who, during his campaign, once said that it might be appropriate to apply the death penalty to those who carried out abortions.

Do I need to apologize for Mr. Coburn's statements? Because I certainly don't agree with those, either.

So this kind of game in which anybody who I know, regardless of how flimsy the relationship is, that somehow their ideas could be attributed to me, I think the American people are smarter than that. They're not going to suggest somehow that that is reflective of my views, because it obviously isn't.
Now is it just me or does anyone else find the reference to Coburn a very poor analogy? Coburn's a member of Congress. Obama didn't choose to have to associate with him, so no one expects him to "answer for" anything Coburn might say, even though the job they both have requires they associate.

Not so with William Ayers. That's an association Obama chooses to continue.

So you have to ask, are there things that people would do that Obama would find "detestable" enough that he wouldn't associate with them? Because so far, I haven't found many.

Should bombing buildings in your nation's capital and being unrepentant about it perhaps be one of them?

This was not Obama's best performance, and this answer, was perhaps his worst of the night (although some may disagree).

Whether or not it is a "distraction" as Obama likes to claim about every question he's not particularly keen on answering, it is another in a growing number of indicators which have me questioning his judgment, and to some extent, his character. If there is no line behind which you stand, no act reprehensible enough to condemn, and no person with whom you won't associate, how in the world can you expect others to trust you to the right thing when you're in office?
_____________

Linked by The American Mind - Thanks!
 
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Comments
Obama’s point stands though: when politics becomes less about what you stand for, than gotcha games over a gaffe or guilt by association with someone you happen to know, well, that’s a sad state of affairs. Unfortunately, the blogosphere seems to have magnified the gotcha games. I give Q&O credit for having a lot of substantive posts on issues, but most left and right blogs out there really are just slinging mud.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
It may or may not be a poor analogy, but it’s a deft one. Obama effectively marginalized Ayers into an acquaintance, and someone that he sometimes works with because they share the same geographic area at times. It’s spin, but it’s pretty dang good spin IMHO.
 
Written By: MichaelW
URL: http://asecondhandconjecture.com
So you choose this to talk about when it comes to the debate?

Wow. I thought you had the judgment to not be so blatant. Guess I was wrong.

I misunderestimated you, McQ.


 
Written By: mkultra
URL: http://
Comparing Billy Ayres, a man who bombed people, to Tom Coburn, a guy who may want to change the law to allow executions of abortion providers (after a fair trial, unlike Ayres and the Weather Underground) is absolutely ridiculous and outrageous. So pro-lifers are murderers, Senator Obama?

These types of analogies are nothing new to the left, just go to Daily Kos and the other left-wing cesspool websites where Christians and pro-lifers are compared to the Taliban everyday.

The story is the analogy, not the Obama-Ayres ties. The analogy tells us more about Obama than even his elitist remarks at fundraisers in San Francisco.
 
Written By: Kevin
URL: http://www.thelibertypapers.org
Prof. Erb — As usual, your pronouncement is nothing more than your opinion stated as though it were a fact.

Obama has almost no record and no experience. We have little to judge him on besides his words, and Obama himself has declared that his words are not to be discounted as "Just words."

You and he will have to live with the reality that the rest of us will judge Obama’s words as best makes sense to us, even if you and he don’t like the conclusions we reach. They are a window of sorts into that mysterious, twilight world of just who is Barack Obama.

No, we aren’t going to play by your rules that if Obama says things that reflect poorly upon himself or his cause, that we are to ignore them as a "distractions." If nothing else, that’s a responsibility Obama must learn to live with should he, God forbid, become president.

Besides, those words were vetted by Obama supporters — the HuffPo blogger, and Huffington herself before they were published into the internet. I take those words as an accurate view held by Obama and his "typical" liberal followers, however inconvenient a truth they may be for Obama’s campaign.
 
Written By: huxley
URL: http://
And I should add, Obama’s associations too, as regards Bill Ayers the particular gocha of this thread.
 
Written By: huxley
URL: http://
Obama has almost no record and no experience. We have little to judge him on besides his words, and Obama himself has declared that his words are not to be discounted as "Just words."
True, just like the words McCain spoke in favor of Charles Keating. Or the word "no," when McCain voted to not define waterboarding as torture. Or ...

Well, you get the idea.

Here’s the bottom line: If you thought invading Iraq was a good idea, vote McCain. If not, vote Obama. McCain voted to invade Iraq. Even believed that BushCo had the judgment and competence to pull it off. Obama thought otherwise.

Simple really.

The majority of Americans thinks that invading Iraq was a mistake. Obama thinks that too.

And you think it is a good idea to hand the keys to McCain? I need to get what you are smoking.

Oh, and I should add that as McQ alludes to, Obama knows scary black people. He actually knows them. Even has spoken to them. Can you imagine?

It’s like Blazing Saddles all over again. Where are the white women at?


 
Written By: mkultra
URL: http://
"And the notion that somehow as a consequence of me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was 8 years old, somehow reflects on me and my values doesn’t make much sense, George."
It’s not that he associates with someone who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, it’s that he associates with someone who, 40 years later, still believes in the righteousness of those acts.
"They’re not going to suggest somehow that that is reflective of my views, because it obviously isn’t."
It’s not so obvious.
 
Written By: Grimshaw
URL: http://
Oh - one last question McQ:

What do Sean Hannity’s boots taste like?

Just asking.

Oh, and here’s a useful definition.
 
Written By: mkultra
URL: http://
He actually knows them. Even has spoken to them. Can you imagine?
Except when it is a certain blogger who worked on a website of a certain politician that MK doesn’t like.

If you work for a person who is accused of using a racial epithet, then you are MK’s worst nightmare. If you work with an unrepentant terrorist, then you are MK’s shining star.

*spit*
 
Written By: JWG
URL: http://
So you choose this to talk about when it comes to the debate?
What "debate"?
I thought you had the judgment to not be so blatant.
When it comes to judgment, MK, you’re the last person to be lecturing someone else about theirs.
What do Sean Hannity’s boots taste like?
I don’t know - why not pull ’em out of your @ss and give ’em a lick.
Oh, and I should add that as McQ alludes to, Obama knows scary black people. He actually knows them. Even has spoken to them. Can you imagine?
Again, the mischaracterization ... but hey, if you couldn’t do that, you wouldn’t have much to say.

And again the reading problem - he chose the associations I’m talking about, which is something moonbats just can’t quite seem to get their heads around. Even Hillary Clinton made that point. Such choices speak to character and judgment - unless you’re so in the bag for the guy, you’ll accept anything.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.QandO.net
For the kiddies who weren’t around the last time this technique was VERY BIG for Republicans, was the Sen. Joe McCarthy era.

Here’s how it works.

I claim, make, or otherwise concoct a connection between you and some possibly bad guy, and you now have to defend every action THAT person has ever taken.

It’s otherwise called Guilt by Association

It’s un-American, although it was the major "thinking" process during the Witch Hunts of New England, when America and Americans were in their intellectual infancy.

How many associations between this admimnistration and its entire culture of corruption and buggery has George and his Dick been asked to explain?





 
Written By: Juan Man
URL: http://
It’s otherwise called Guilt by Association
So no one is ever "guilty" of bad judgement for their decisions to associate themselves with certain people?
 
Written By: JWG
URL: http://
True, just like the words McCain spoke in favor of Charles Keating
Or the words Obama used to help his buddy Rezko, right?

That sword cuts both ways.
 
Written By: Steverino
URL: http://
It’s otherwise called Guilt by Association
It is if you try to pull the Coburn analogy.

It isn’t if you choose to associate with the person like he does Ayers.

 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.QandO.net
I am still waiting for the Pope to explain his relationship with Adolph Hitler, Goering, Himmler, and Eichmann.

It’s a fair question to ask - he was a Hitler youth, and at a young age, we know he wasn’t very attracted to girls.

If associative questions are fair game in a simple political debate, how much moreso for the representative of the Very Creator on earth?

I am waiting for the Pope to respond. Possibly we gain get "Charles" Gibson and George S. to pose the question in an extremely professional manner.

 
Written By: Juan Man
URL: http://
Juan, you are hopelessly confused.
 
Written By: Grimshaw
URL: http://
It’s a fair question to ask - he was a Hitler youth, and at a young age, we know he wasn’t very attracted to girls.
Heh ... I have to ask, do you really think this line of comment is going to solicit anything but a ’go for it’ from anyone here?

You’ve essentially acknowledged the point even while drifting into the absurd. Being in the Hitler youth is certainly a basis for questions. And it certainly is an association of choice (although he may argue it wasn’t). Consequently, questions about it are legitimate, just as are the chosen associations of Barack Obama.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.QandO.net
What do Sean Hannity’s boots taste like?
MK,
Pot Kettle Black
I guess you forgot of your bootlicking of Mike Nifong and Nancy Grace?
 
Written By: Paul L
URL: http://kingdomofidiots.blogspot.com/
I am still waiting for the Pope to explain his relationship
Read his book.
 
Written By: JWG
URL: http://
Obama has almost no record and no experience.
He has more than George W. Bush had in 2000. But you state your opinion as if it were fact (that seems to bother you from others, but you have no qualms about doing it yourself...very telling).

The American people can decide. I have a feeling that the gutter politics of the Hannity and ’guilt by association’ crowd will backfire, that the American people are intelligent enough to look at Obama’s positions, listen to him, and compare his vision with McCain’s. I suspect you may be very surprised come November. But hey, enjoy your "groupthink" for now.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
He has more than George W. Bush had in 2000.
I keep hearing this and I have asked for one simple thing regarding the man - If he has had such a wealth of experience, provide for me a list of his accomplishments. I have tried to find out and the most I can come up with is 130 vote of "Present" in the Illinois Legislature and the most liberal voting record in the US Senate since he has arrived.
 
Written By: SShiell
URL: http://
Re: Bush’s experience v. Obama’s.
I keep hearing this and I have asked for one simple thing regarding the man - If he has had such a wealth of experience, provide for me a list of his accomplishments.
So Obama was the governor of Illinois for 8 years?

Wow ... that’s a scoop.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.QandO.net
Is MK cutting and pasting from previous posts? And I don’t mean in the figurative sense?
For the kiddies who weren’t around the last time this technique was VERY BIG for Republicans, was the Sen. Joe McCarthy era.
Uh, McCarthy was right, Ace. Your revisionist history prof convinced you otherwise, but that’s no one’s fault but yours. He/she still believes Hiss was innocent as well, declassified cables notwithstanding. I’m channeling Erb when I say: you need to do your homework. Yes, this was VERY BIG for Republicans back then. So was the abolition movement. How much history do you intend to remanufacture back in your favor? Tool, indeed.
 
Written By: rob
URL: http://
So Obama was the governor of Illinois for 8 years?
I would have killed myself inside the second year...
 
Written By: Scott Jacobs
URL: http://
Here’s the bottom line: If you thought invading Iraq was a good idea, vote McCain. If not, vote Obama.


The decision to invade is OBE. Now we need to decide what we do from this point on.

If you want to leave Iraq ASAP without considering the situation on the ground, vote Obama.
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
He has more than George W. Bush had in 2000.
Wow. Based upon that comment, you have no buisness teaching anything related to poly sci.

 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
It’s un-American, although it was the major "thinking" process during the Witch Hunts of New England, when America and Americans were in their intellectual infancy.
I get the feeling that you really don’t know much about the "witch hunts", either.

The left really is "stuck on stupid".

 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
So Obama was the governor of Illinois for 8 years?
If he did, he’d be qualified in a basic sense, but I’m not sure it would be the equal of 8 years as gov of Texas.
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
So Obama was the governor of Illinois for 8 years?

Wow ... that’s a scoop.
Seems to me I said something of the sort when this discussion came up in here a couple weeks back, though I can’t recall the thread.

 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitsblog.florack.us
The governorship of Texas is mostly symbolic, without a lot of real political power. Bush came into office uniquely unqualified. Obama’s Senate and state house experience trumps that.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
The governorship of Texas is mostly symbolic, without a lot of real political power. Bush came into office uniquely unqualified. Obama’s Senate and state house experience trumps that.
Wow. You are really willing to say the dumbest things.
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
Wow. You are really willing to say the dumbest things.
No, I wrote the truth. The fact you think the truth is dumb says something about you.

The Texas governor has very limited power. President Bush essentially had run a failing oil company, been helped to purchase a baseball team, and then was governor in a state where the powers of the governor are very, very limited. Then suddenly be becomes President. Obama’s experience is greater than Bush’s — and unlike Bush, who without help from papa would have never gotten to where he is, Obama was actually successful in his own right.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
Bush has been a worse than average president and his lack of experience is a part of that (and yet it was still better putting up with Bush than it would have been with Kerry). Thus we should learn our lesson and stop voting in people with poor experience. Thus Obama shouldn’t even be in the running. Hillary is highly questionable for the same reason. McCain has more experience than both of them X2. I don’t like him, but he’s better than the other two.
 
Written By: Grimshaw
URL: http://
No, I wrote the truth
BWaaahahahahahhahahahaah

 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitsblog.florack.us
It really is incredible that Republicans have the Audacity of Shamelessness to try the Guilt-By-Association propaganda device.

Has anyone in mainstream media asked for associative explanations for:

Prescott Bush, the Nazis, and the bank Prescott ran for the Nazis in NYC?

The Silverado S and L scandal of Neil Bush

The N.J. friends of Bush in educational testing who made a fortune in No Child Left Behind

Saudi Prince, so called Bandar Bush, who was given access to top secret security maps and charts by W, in his many visits to the White House.

And here’s the stunning height of Republican hypocracy:

Who was a male prostitute servicing in the White House on a regular basis - including week-ends, for well over a year? With no security clearance.

The answer is the MSM knows which ASSOCIATIONS to investigate, and which ones they better not touch with a fifty-foot pole.

Ask Capital-Gains Gibson, and gussied-up George S. They know all about the rules of engagement.


 
Written By: Juan Man
URL: http://
You still don’t get it do you Juan?

There’s no one that’s going to come to the defense of the Republicans here. Or Bush. You read what you want into all of that, but again, it seems you’ve unknowingly, and in your own way, validated the premise of the post.

Thanks.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.QandO.net
Juan keeps thinking this is the Right-side equivilent of DU, KosDiary, Huffington Post or FireDog Lake. Those sites tend to follow the Fascist methodology of discourse - agree with us or die. He’s just a poor little dipsh*t troll who doesn’t know any better. Now that he does, he can shuffle back to his masters over on the left.
 
Written By: SShiell
URL: http://
Has anyone in mainstream media asked for associative explanations for:


Prescott Bush, the Nazis, and the bank Prescott ran for the Nazis in NYC?

The Silverado S and L scandal of Neil Bush

The N.J. friends of Bush in educational testing who made a fortune in No Child Left Behind

Saudi Prince, so called Bandar Bush, who was given access to top secret security maps and charts by W, in his many visits to the White House.

And here’s the stunning height of Republican hypocracy:

Who was a male prostitute servicing in the White House on a regular basis - including week-ends, for well over a year? With no security clearance.

The answer is the MSM knows which ASSOCIATIONS to investigate, and which ones they better not touch with a fifty-foot pole.

Ask Capital-Gains Gibson, and gussied-up George S. They know all about the rules of engagement.
Oh, dear God. Are you a "troofer" as well?

 
Written By: rob
URL: http://
And Erb links to Wikipedia. For shame, sir. It’s beneath you.
 
Written By: rob
URL: http://
Since nonprofit board members have to be elected and reelected by other board members, did Obama vote to have Ayers on the Woods’ board knowing Ayers’ terrorist background and his unrepentant stance on his terrorist background? And since Obama was on the board before Ayers and knew Ayers previously, was it Obama who nominated or recommended Ayres for the board?

While Ayers may not have directly killed anyone, he says he was involved in bombings. Thus, he likely knew of and helped with the bomb making or at least probably conspired with the bomb makers at the townhouse in NY that blew up killing three people, including his girlfriend. Wouldn’t that make him criminally libel for manslaughter or murder? Is there any statue of limitations on this kind of crime?

There maybe an interesting connection at the time of 9/11. Obama’s guru, the Reverend Wright, blames America. Obama’s terrorist friend, Ayers, says his bombs weren’t big enough, implying he felt outdone by Osama. Obama intentionally chooses not to ware an American flag lapel pin, which at the time was meant to show support and respect for America under attack and the thousands murdered on 9/11.

Yes, it’s true. Obama would be a different kind of American President.
 
Written By: Jake
URL: http://

 
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