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Jimmy Carter dissembles again (update)
Posted by: McQ on Tuesday, April 22, 2008

Of course the only way he could conceivably make his trip worth something is if he came out of a meeting with Hamas claiming they were ready to recognize Israel's right to exist. That is the most important sticking point in the peace process and has been for years.

And that's precisely what Carter did. He claimed that they would accept a Palestinian state, accept the 1967 borders and accept Israel's right to exist if that was the will of the Palestinian people.

In fact he announced that yesterday to the Israeli Council on Foreign Relations.

Peace in our time!

Well, except for one minor detail: Hamas never agreed to the latter and most important point.
Hamas said yesterday it was prepared to accept a Palestinian state within 1967 borders, but contradicted a statement by former President Jimmy Carter that it would accept Israel's right to exist if that was the will of the Palestinian people.
So what Carter "accomplished" was to get Hamas to agree to what they'd already agreed to previously.

You have to wonder - how in the world does this guy think he's going to get away with such announcements? Does he think just because he makes such a claim that it will suddenly be true?

Carter's announcement:
Hamas "said they would accept a Palestinian state on the 1967 borders if approved by Palestinians, and that they would accept the right of Israel to live as a neighbor in peace, provided the agreements negotiated by [Palestinian Authority] President [Mahmoud] Abbas were submitted to the Palestinians," Mr. Carter said.
Hamas spokesman:
"We accept a state on the [1967] line with Jerusalem as capital, real sovereignty and full right of return for refugees, but without recognizing Israel," Al Jazeera quoted him as saying.
Net results for the talks? No change.

Net gain for the peace process? Zero, zip, nada, nothing.

Net gain for Hamas? Legitimacy granted by an old fool.

And Carter? Another miserable example of his ego-driven and inept meddling in places he doesn't belong.

UPDATE: Even Obama gets it:
On the issue of Hamas, Obama held steady in his criticism of Carter, saying that the former president should not have met with a terrorist organization.

"Given that they are not heads of state, to sit down with them, I think gave them a legitimacy that was unnecessary. And in fact, what we're seeing now is even as President Carter suggests there was a breakthrough, you have some of the same old rhetoric coming out of Hamas representatives with regard to Israel."
 
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Previous Comments to this Post 

Comments
Yeah, and Carter was warned not to go:
In an interview with NPR, Carter said the State Department did not warn him off the trip. A State Department spokesman in Washington took issue with that on Monday, and Rice was more blunt in her account Tuesday.
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
Oh yeah, and of course, Carter lied about it . . .
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
Jim-muh...GREAT MAN...SMALL MINDED CRITICS...ONLY 1% OF HIS EXPERIENCE..ARGUMENTUM AD HOMINEM...
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
Jimmy Carter was an awful POTUS .. really making Bush look good.

For a while he was looking like a great ex-POTUS, but he just couldn’t help himself.
 
Written By: Neo
URL: http://
Put a bible or a hammer in his hand at a Habitat for Humanity Project and he is a great man. Put him on the world stage and he is what Lenin referred to as a Useful Idiot.
 
Written By: SShiell
URL: http://
Carter often gets blamed for things beyond his control when he was President, and, of course, he’s not as bad as the current President. But I’m damn proud that he has the guts to go and talk to Hamas, maybe bring them a step closer to understanding the position of the West, thumb his nose at Rice and Bush, and endure the childless taunts of the blog class. It’s satisfying to see you guys stew — and I suspect history will remember him far better than you expect — must be some conspiracy of left wing professors, who change definitions of terms, and all that ;-) But go on and vent, CDS, BDS, it’s basically the same thing, just coming from a different perspective.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
Joe forgot NOBEL PRIZE, so...

NOBEL PRIZE winner!
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
Excuse me, that should be "childish taunts."
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
Carter often gets blamed for things beyond his control when he was President, and, of course,

You mean like windfall profits taxes on oil companies that reduced the future supply of oil and the various policies that produced "gas lines"?

Or do you mean the re-flation of the US economy that led to the "stagflation" at the end of his administration?

Or do you mean his turning his back on the Shah and allowing the mullah’s to come to power in Iran?

Or do you mean his decision to allow the Shah into the country, sparking the Iranian hostage Crisis?

Or do you mean the ineffectual response of the US for 444 days and the humiliation of Desert One?

Or his disillusion over the Soviet Union’s behavior concerning their invasion of Afghanistan?

Those sort of things he had no control over.

he’s not as bad as the current President.
Of course because all this POTUS has done is oversee economic growth for 6-7 of his 8 year term and liberate 50 million people from tyranny. I mean that is NOTHING as to having fought off, single-handedly, a Killer Rabbit.

But I’m damn proud that he has the guts to go and talk to Hamas, maybe bring them a step closer to understanding the position of the West,
That position seems to be, "Hamas can do anything and we will talk to you and criticize Israel and expect Israel to compromise with those who did not recognize its right to existence." Well that seems to Jim-muh’s position.
thumb his nose at Rice and Bush,
Because the Great-Souled One knows ever so much more about Foreign Policy than Dubya and any way he has a Nobel Peace prize and so he, not the elected POTUS needs to be making foreign policy for the US.
and I suspect history will remember him far better than you expect —
Well probably, right now he gets an "F" but I’m sure that will be upgraded to about a "D" in the future.
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
Can we just leave him over there? Revoke the visa and just leave him there? I’m willing to help subsidize the operation, I have a fiver I can spare.

Scott, if Hamas doesn’t understand the western position yet, they never will. And that old fool Carter isn’t going to change that.
 
Written By: Mikey NTH
URL: http://
Carter is a fool and so are you Scott for defending him. Do you know what Hamas is? Do you know what they stand for? Of course you do. But you think, along with Carter, that if we keep talking to them, they will change. They will never change. They do not want to understand. They want to wipe Israel off the map. Get that Scott? Wipe ’em off the map.
 
Written By: Twizz
URL: http://
Joe;

Erb won’t say this, but I will.
Brilliant.
 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitsblog.florack.us
Wipe ’em off the map.
And for the geographically challenged among us, that means to remove the state of Israel from the map and kill every jew that remains within the borders of the newfound state of Palestine. For that you would praise Carter? I thought you were wrong about Kerry but then again that kind of hero resonates with the left. I thought you were wrong about Murtha but then again anyone against the war is all right by you. Had this been a former Republican President visiting a foreign nation against the wishes of a Democratic Administration, your tone would be just the reverse.

But for you to exalt a person who actively participates in promoting genocide, well - that goes far beyond the pale even for someone as dense as you, Erb.
 
Written By: SShiell
URL: http://
So, Scott
Carter’s main claim to fame to be able to run around negotiating, without sanction, is that he’s a former President of the United States.

Therefore, if the current Bush, in 8 years time, takes it upon himself to negotiate with some organization the then current administration doesn’t approve of, YOU will of course defend him, right?

Hamas already KNOWS how the West feels. I guess you think hearing some Jimmy Carter version of how the west feels (as if HE has any license to tell them) is going to make them think differently?
Carter comes out and says ’Hamas says’, and is almost INSTANTLY proven to be wrong (and a tool) by Hamas. The words have hardly even left his lips before he’s contradicted by the very group he’s licensed himself to represent to Israel.

Which part of WASTED TIME don’t you read in this excercise between Carter and Hamas?

Which part of that makes him a great man, and not an utter idiot who is an embarrassment to himself and his country?

 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
"he’s not as bad as the current President."
Erb, that’s proof positive that you are a fool. Bush is a bad president, on whole, but Carter is the worst in a long, long time.
 
Written By: Grimshaw
URL: http://
UPDATED
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.QandO.net
thumb his nose at Rice and Bush
Yeah, and you were telling us how he’d be providing useful info for the administration.

Carter helped ensure Mugabe’s victory in Zimbabwe, solicited Soviet help in the ’80 and ’84 elections (against the REAL ENEMY, Reagan), tried to talk Canada out of supporting the first Gulf War, aided Arafat in writing propaganda, and negotiated a nukes-and-oil deal with North Korea. The man is a worthless old fool.
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
Ya know...think of the hubris involved here....

Assume -
Hamas wants to accept the 67 borders, will recognize Israel’s right to exist, will work with them, will share Jerusalem.

But...
THEY can’t contact Israel themselves on this....

NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

They have to wait until Jimmah Cahtah flies his Nobel Peace Prize (for what? What was that for again? What Peace in the Middle East?) winning ass across the Atlantic Ocean to the Middle East to visit them, and THEN allow him to carry their message of peace, prosperity, and brotherly love to the guys who are
sitting about 50 miles away from Hamas in Israel.

Excuse me, only an arrogant twit would presume that he was the key to solving this puzzle. The fact that Carter parades around like he’s the answer really says it all.

We won’t bother to define people who defend him, but it’s safe to say it would probably involve childish taunts.
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
(for what? What was that for again? What Peace in the Middle East?)
Carter helped negotiate the Israeli-Egyptian peace with Begin and Sadat.
Just being fair...sorta.....

Well, it sounded good didn’t it?
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
Professor, can you tell me the Constitutional problem with a former President taking into himself the Diplomatic and Foreign Policy decisions against the will of a Current President?

You DO understand that what Carter did was unethical, even in some cases unconstitutional, and that Pres. Bush would be within his rights to arrest the man, prosecute him for collaborating with Terrorists, or, at the very least, strip him of his Passport?
 
Written By: Joel C.
URL: http://
blamed for things beyond his control when he was President
Mark this down.
 
Written By: Neo
URL: http://

blamed for things beyond his control when he was President


Mark this down.
What, you mean like, um careless lending by financial institutions and lying homebuyers?

Or, the laws of unintended consequences of using corn for fuel and granting subsidies for it?

Or, the rise of Chinese demand for oil on the world market leading to
increased prices?

Are you storing this up for a rainy day Neo? You know you won’t have to store it very long, right.
I bet you’re using it within the week.
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
Carter often gets blamed for things beyond his control when he was President. That’s a matter of definition, by the way - the tenets of post-modernism require that anything bad that happens to a left-leaning president must be somebody else’s fault. And, of course, he’s not as bad as the current President, but that again is by definition, since to we leftists, no one could conceivably be worse than Bush except possibly another Repbulican. Certain no Democrat could be. They’re wise and caring and good, and they never, ever do the kind of evil things Bush does. But I’m damn proud that Carter has the guts to go and talk to Hamas, and I’m also very happy that he has the guts to lie about the whole thing to make the magnificient cause of post-modern peacemaking look good. If he had come back and said "Man, those Palestinians are just whacked, so let’s tell them to go screw," I would have been devastated. Maybe he’ll bring them a step closer to understanding the position of the West, or at least the anti-war left that composes their de facto allies in the West. Carter should thumb his nose at Rice and Bush, even though they are our duly elected and appointed foreign policy representatives, because they just are not leftists like they should be (and I’m still peeved at the citizenry of the entire country about that), and endure the childless taunts of the blog class. Yes, criticism of a great man like Carter is childish, and you should accept his superior experience and wisdom, no matter how much it look like he was completely took by Hamas. Stop laughing!

It’s satisfying to see you guys stew, and especially satisfying to know that I’m the only one around here who really understands and appreciates the monumental genius of Jimmy Carter. I suspect history will remember him far better than you expect, because, of course, history is written by wise leftists like me, who change definitions of terms to suit the leftist narrative, and all that ;-) Isn’t it great! We get to basically override any number of you dense righties with our superior judgement, but of course that is as it should be since we are so much smarter than you. But go on and vent, CDS, BDS, it’s basically the same thing, just coming from a different perspective. And that’s not an ad hominem argument, oh, no. It’s merely applying post modernist reasoning to the contradiction of opinions of righties. The end result must be some sort of mental illness, and there are numerous studies about that. So I’m sure that I’m right and that I’m sane, and you’re all wrong and crazy. Stop laughing, I said!
 
Written By: Ott Scerb
URL: http://cluelessprof.maine.edu
Look, the only reason Hamas (and other Arabs) insist on the 1967 borders is they know Israel can’t defend them. Everyone knew it back in ’67....that’s why there was a war.

For Hamas to insist on the 1967 borders and reject the notion of Israel’s right to exist isn’t much of a deal...unless you think giving your opponent in Monopoly every property except for Mediterranean & Baltic Avenues is a great deal.
 
Written By: Steverino
URL: http://
"thumb his nose at Rice and Bush,"

Oh yeah, that’s productive. Nothing produces a willingness to listen more than thumbing your nose at the prospective audience. Proof, if true, of his arrogance and lack of diplomatic expertise, and true or not, another example of your childish desire to continually belittle Bush.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
and from the people who know what they’re talking about, that is, the Palestinians....
Last week’s meeting between former US president Jimmy Carter and the exiled leader of Hamas militants did not produce any results, Palestinian foreign minister Riyad al-Malki said here Wednesday.
So, where’s our reads a lot, examines boths sides and is a critical thinker who thinks we all have CDS (contrasted to nose thumbing BDS) guy?

Carter is a great man and that this trip made you proud eh?


 
Written By: looker
URL: http://

 
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