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Fiscal reality
Posted by: McQ on Saturday, May 03, 2008

Arnold Kling provides it:
Message to Republicans: if you cut spending on "worthy causes" to zero, you still would not balance the budget. You will have to raise personal income taxes.

Message to Democrats: if you increased personal income tax receipts by 25 percent (a ginormous tax increase), you still would not balance the budget. You will have to cut back on "worthy causes."

Message to the AARP: if Social Security and Medicare continue to be "untouchable," then y'all had better buy guns, because in twenty years there won't be any money left to pay for national defense, much less for any "worthy causes."
 
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"Message to Republicans: if you cut spending on "worthy causes" to zero, you still would not balance the budget. You will have to raise personal income taxes."
Fine, raise them on the 50% of the population that don’t pay anything. Otherwise, I’ll be cleaning my gun.

 
Written By: Grimshaw
URL: http://
I think "Worthy Causes" is an incomplete category. There’s a lot of payout from Social Security, Medicaid and other categories that should be considered "Worthy Causes". While at the same time, there are some things in Worthy Causes that financially redeeming value and shouldn’t be cut.

At the risk of opening another Laffer Curve debate, I don’t think the economy could bare increased taxes. You may or may not get more revenue, but your payouts will go up.
 
Written By: jpm100
URL: http://
Why income taxes, particularly?

 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitsblog.florack.us
Hey, I have a solution. Let’s borrow all the money we are spending on everything, money we don’t have, and let our children pay the loans plus interest off. They won’t know what hit them.

That will force future American fetuses to have two or three jobs, and will keep them out of trouble for centuries.

Let’s call this concept The Theory of Republican Small Government.

As Ronald Reagan said, more or less ... Hell, why should I pay?
 
Written By: Juan Man
URL: http://
Congress has a pretty big say on the budget, Juan.

Brought to you by: link
 
Written By: jpm100
URL: http://
Juan, do you purposely ignore reality, or have you conditioned yourself to think it isn’t so?
 
Written By: Joel C.
URL: http://
Here’s my Reality - see how it squares with yours.

All politicians need to get money to their district or state, with few exceptions, to stay "elected".

If Republican politicians really practiced cutting back to their constituents, they would be history. And they fully well know this harsh reality - that people WANT things, they just have a hell of a time forking over the bucks to pay for those things.

So all this talk about small government from Republicans is pure bull-pooh.

But they have come up with a winning formula, extremely popular with the Low Information Voter, and with the people who vote their "values".

Call the Democratic calls to pay as you go an example of Tax and Spend Liberalism. And throw in Democrats are GODLESS for good measure.


Never mind that it is immoral to deadbeat future generations of American fetuses with our reckless borrowing and blowing billions - Republicans who create massive government and MASSIVE DEFICITS STILL get the vote of the True Believers. (After all, many voters aren’t operating from a reality-based system, they are operating from a "Belief" System - the facts be dammed.)

Of course, voters who actually thought things out would not be tricked into this theft of our children’s future.

That’s were Fox Media, Moon, Mellon come in. Rev, Moon needs AP to rewrite every newswire story so that the charade can go on indefinitely. Corporate media needs to tell you that a vote for Obama is a vote against America. That he doesn’t wear a Flag pin like true Patriots do. And so on.

And by Gosh, by Golly, IT WORKS!


For an exercise, check out how much Newt Gingrich was getting into his Georgia district while he was damming Democratic big government giveaways. (You can also learn he was condemming Clinton and Lewinsky, while Newt was bonking his assistant, and getting ready to divorse his wife who was in the hospital with cancer.) (For the record, I don’t want to slander Newt with the Republican prefernce-du-jour, his assistant WAS a female.)

Newt Gingrich - a Republican’s Republican.

Newt Gingrich - a Small Government Conservative’s Small Government Conservative.
 
Written By: Juan Man
URL: http://
Juan, there haven’t been any small government Republicans in power in Washington for almost a few decades.

But to balance the deficit we’ll need to find a few. Sounds like we can count you in for when they take the necessary ax to so-called entitlements.
 
Written By: jpm100
URL: http://
Sure. What entittlements do you want to give up?

I’ll give up my mineral drilling rights in Colorado,

and my grazing rights on federal land in Montana,

and my free water from federal land to feed my livestock rights.

Also, I’ll give up my rights to use the TV/Radio broadcast spectrum over America to get billions in advertising booty for my shareholders.

And I’ll give up my right to stop contributing to Social Security at $90K.

Your’s again ???
 
Written By: Juan Man
URL: http://
Juan, you seem a glittering jewel of ignorance... Riddle me this: We have Congress in the hands of the Democrats for the last four years. Most states have Democrat govenors. The State legislatures are mostly in the hands of the Democrats. Most cities have Democrat mayors and Democrat dominated councils.

Explain to me how all these complaints of yours are all the result of Republican policy.


 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitsblog.florack.us
And I’ll give up my right to stop contributing to Social Security at $90K.
That’s not an entitlement, you nitwit, that’s a tax increase.
 
Written By: Steverino
URL: http://
Government needs money to provide services and make capital investments. Services include national defense, law enforcement, regulation of commerce, education and administrative systems. Capital investments are things like government buildings, transportation systems, weapon systems, parks and monuments, energy grids and utilities. Who should pay these costs? How should we decide what is a citizen’s fair share?

Does it cost the government more to defend a wealthy person than one who is poor?

Should the "rich" be punished for their success? If so, we should change "Income Tax" to "Success Tax."

Why should someone who pays zero income tax be entitled to a portion of my refund?

If a family home schools or sends their children to private schools, why should they pay for the public schools?

If you are in the U.S. military - a job you cannot quit and one that may very well get you killed - why should the meager salary the government pays you be taxed at all?

In Williamsville, NY, I had a small frame house with only 55’ of frontage - road and sidewalk. Here in Alabama, my frontage is 1,200’. Why were my property taxes in NY $4,500 and only $1,080 in Alabama?

At a neighborhood Christmas party several years ago, I asked my Liberal friends why we do not start a tab for every person born and tally up the cost of the government services and their pro rata share of capital investment. At least, that would be "fair."
 
Written By: Arch
URL: http://
Such anger. Such name-calling. You folks really, really care about your money.

So, a N.Y. education and an Alabama education are equal?

It is a tax break to say at $90 YOU NO LONGER have to pay SS. If it’s a tax, it should be on your entire income. Anything else is a tax break.

Bithead - you missed my point entirely.

We will have TAXES regardless of who is in charge. Americans DEMAND the services those taxes purchase.

It is tilting at windmills to expect a different universe.

BUT, the Democrats say let US pay NOW for our services.

Ronald Reagan say LET OUR KIDS PAY for our services - aka- running huge deficits. Ronnie was smart/evil enough to say that HE was only trying to bankupt the U.S. Treasury to kill entittlements. Bush may have completed Reagan’s Mission. That is Immoral.

I choose the Democrats because they are the Party of Morality towards future American fetuses. They say let us pay now.

I know this is tough nut for the true believers.

Speaking of that, Bush is sending my tax dollars to religious organizations - against my will, but with the OK of the Supreme Court.

Now that’s what really sucks and is un-American.

 
Written By: Juan Man
URL: http://
Hey, advanced, low tax Republicans - try this.

Go into the reddest of red towns in the reddest of red states, and say - The US govt wants to close down your obsolete base/post to reduce govt.spending.

The experienced among us know EXACTLY what the re-action will be.

Now do you see what I mean ???

 
Written By: Juan Man
URL: http://
extremely popular with the Low Information Voter
Uh oh, he’s on to us...
Ronald Reagan say LET OUR KIDS PAY for our services - aka- running huge deficits. Ronnie was smart/evil enough to say that HE was only trying to bankupt the U.S. Treasury to kill entittlements.
I really can’t believe you’re still running this tripe around. I remember it vividly when I was in grade school, how Ronny Ray-gun was giving me the bill for his massive deficits. One question, genius. How big is the pie now relative to the pie then? It’s kinda pertinent.

By the way, I still haven’t paid it. The bill, that is.
 
Written By: rob
URL: http://
Hey Juan,

Explain to me why Public Schools in Washington DC spend the most, per capita, of any public school district in the country yet achieve what would charitably be called subpar results?

But more of my money is the answer, right?

Take a look at what Thomas Sowell wrote about public schools in Harlem. They were pretty good when he was a kid.

When you are willing to admit that teacher’s unions and the educational bureacracy are a problem, we can have a dialog. You don’t know me. You don’t know my motives. You believe I’m selfish because I spend my money on my children’s educations. Well, let’s just say the last time the phone rang in the middle of the night it wasn’t you who got up and went in to work for me. When you do, we can discuss how to spend our money.

 
Written By: MarkD
URL: http://
Juan:

Is a New York education better than an Alabama education? That depends on where you live in New York or Alabama.

In Buffalo, the schools downtown are almost all black and they are awful. But, Buffalo City Honors, however, is ranked #9 in the US. Erie County has the highest expenditure per pupil in the nation. So the problem isn’t money.

In Birmingham, the schools downtown are almost all black and they are awful. But, Irondale Baccalaureate School is ranked #4 in the US. Jefferson County spends about $4,000 less per student than Erie County. So the problem isn’t answer.

If you look at Newsweek’s top 1,300 (top 5%) schools, two are Texas schools, two Florida, two California, and one each from Alabama, Arizona, Michigan and New York. Your assumption that NY education is better than Alabama’s doesn’t pan out. Actually, it’s more a case of an inefficient, corrupt government bureaucracy vs. concerned parents and tax payers.

The national average per pupil is about $11,700 unless he is a non-English speaker then it’s $12,700. The funding comes 9.1% federal, 46.5% state and 44.4% local taxes. Revenues for US education exceed wartime defense appropriations and they are growing at 2.6% over inflation.

Education in the US is not worth what we are paying.
 
Written By: Arch
URL: http://
I really can’t believe you’re still running this tripe around. I remember it vividly when I was in grade school, how Ronny Ray-gun was giving me the bill for his massive deficits. One question, genius. How big is the pie now relative to the pie then? It’s kinda pertinent.
That is the question The Filthy Rich want you to ask. And you did your job. The Pie is Bigger.

Now here is the question a person who doesn’t think belief in a particular political system should prevent one from thinking.

Here is the critical thinking question to ask:

How much bigger is YOUR slice of the pie today? Trust me, people who can answer YES to THAT question, don’t spend time blogging on the internet - That’s work for the Moat Warriors, and the revolutionaries like me and Washington, trying to kick the filthy rich "kings" in their collective butt.

Ca. had the best public school system in the world until con-man Ronnie convinced many that who needed a whole bunch of smart, educated, thinking individuals in the U.S.

He saw that you don’t need a degree to work in WalMart. And that’s were American students test against civilized nations - in the middle or bottom. That’s what Reagan did for America.


But it’s true, the rich are richer.
 
Written By: Juan Man
URL: http://
Juan:

I meant to say, So the money isn’t the answer.

MarkD:

Exactly
 
Written By: Arch
URL: http://
So, a N.Y. education and an Alabama education are equal?
Ummmm no. There are indications that Alabama gets the better of that comparison.
BUT, the Democrats say let US pay NOW for our services
Heh. I don’t know which frightens me more. That you argue this, or taht you actually beleive in it.
How much bigger is YOUR slice of the pie today? Trust me, people who can answer YES to THAT question, don’t spend time blogging on the internet -
Huh?

 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitsblog.florack.us
Is a New York education better than an Alabama education? That depends on where you live in New York or Alabama.
That’s true. But mobile families who value education tend to form up at particular schools in any state, which attract more such families, and get better still. People who aren’t able to move get what’s left.

It not a TOTAL CAUSED by one thing type of problem. Principals, teachers’ pay, parents participation, equipment and facilities, and sure, educational turf battles come into play. Why should education be different from the life that surrounds it.

The Ronnie Reagan crowd says that throwing money at schools is a terrible waste of money.

But, on the other hand, a business cannot throw enough millions in pay to CEOs to get a better CEO. It’s the same old con-job. You deserve better.
Education in the US is not worth what we are paying.


As the Republican dollar is dropping through the ideologocal trap door, education will soon be worth what we are paying for - next to nothing.


 
Written By: Juan Man
URL: http://
I enjoyed the post and the comments, which were substantive. Congratulations to all [also posted on Arnold’s blog].

I want to add three points to the discussion:

1. Is balancing the budget the best course of action for government? Why?

2. If tax revenues grew by roughly 33%, but spending grew faster (since 2000), then shouldn’t we look to the rate of spending growth as the problem?

3. When we consider government spending, shouldn’t we distinguish between ordinary expenses and those that are actually long-term investments? In other words, how can we assess the government’s financial condition without a true balance sheet that includes assets owned by government as well as liabilities?
 
Written By: Kurt Brouwer
URL: http://www.fundmasteryblog.com
Do you ever notice how people who say "Reagan gave us deficits" are almost always liberal big spenders? Yet they always make it soundlike Reagan was in the White House, passing spendign bill after spending bill (like a czar, I guess, since in this scenario Congress had nothing to do with it) while liberals—you know, those paragons of fiscal responsibility and concern for the taxpayer—were heroically fighting for smaller and less expensive government. What an odd, Bizarro-type world these people live in.
 
Written By: Bilwick
URL: http://
Kurt:

The point I was trying to make about "running a tab" is that we need to make, as a nation, the kind of decisions we would as a household. In their early years most families operate with a deficit - a mortgage, a car payment, children and a stack of bills. Eventually, those debts are paid and they begin to save.

Government deficit spending is not bad any more than borrowing money to operate a business is bad. The problem is that we need a plan to retire our debts, which may combine increasing revenue and reducing expenditures.

It may appear that I am picking on education when I look at a place to reduce spending, but they operate a huge government monopoly that could use some competition. Public schools take real estate off the tax rolls, pay teachers at union wage scales, add benefits the commercial world can only imagine and refuse to be held accountable for their dismal performance.

If parents in Buffalo and Birmingham whose children are trapped in awful public schools could get half the per student expenditure as a voucher, private schools would spring up and force the public schools to make substantive improvements. We are talking about a total annual expenditure for primary and secondary education approaching $600,000,000.
 
Written By: Arch
URL: http://
$600,000,000,000.
 
Written By: Arch
URL: http://
That is the question The Filthy Rich want you to ask. And you did your job. The Pie is Bigger.
OK, you’re obviously a Koskid. Lessee...
the revolutionaries like me and Washington, trying to kick the filthy rich "kings" in their collective butt
Delusions of grandeur. Check.
Ca. had the best public school system in the world until con-man Ronnie convinced many that who needed a whole bunch of smart, educated, thinking individuals in the U.S.
Logic-free stab at Reagan. Check.
He saw that you don’t need a degree to work in WalMart.
...and an out-of-nowhere shot at Walmart. Check and the trifecta is complete. By the way, Abacus, Walmart was a small chain store when Reagan was running things. Don’t let that little detail slow your roll.
But, on the other hand, a business cannot throw enough millions in pay to CEOs to get a better CEO. It’s the same old con-job. You deserve better.
Bonus round: Active Union Member!

...and if I’m wrong, he’s Oliver Willis! (Arnold Willis?)
As the Republican dollar is dropping through the ideologocal trap door, education will soon be worth what we are paying for - next to nothing.
This statement may as well be anti-matter given it’s toxicity to reality. Completely nonsensical.

And if you’re going to convince everyone of your superior intellect (or at least superior grasp of the facts), you may want to clean up your grammar. Undercuts your, uh, arguments.

What are you going to name your website, by the way?

I vote for "Revolutionary Malfeasant". Hmm, clumsy. I’ll work on it.
 
Written By: rob
URL: http://
The Ronnie Reagan crowd says that throwing money at schools is a terrible waste of money.

But, on the other hand, a business cannot throw enough millions in pay to CEOs to get a better CEO. It’s the same old con-job. You deserve better.
Wait, people are forced to invest in corporations? If I don’t invest in my local schools, I go to prison. However, I’ve never sent a dime to Exxon (the evilest of the evil), and yet I’m unscathed.
 
Written By: Jordan
URL: http://
"I choose the Democrats because they are the Party of Morality towards future American fetuses."
The last thing on earth many Democrats have any positive morality towards are ’future American fetuses.’

 
Written By: Grimshaw
URL: http://
It is a tax break to say at $90 YOU NO LONGER have to pay SS. If it’s a tax, it should be on your entire income. Anything else is a tax break.
It’s not a tax break. It’s a limit to the contribution.

Juan, you do know that the Social Security benefit is capped, right? No matter how much you earn, you can’t collect above the cap. So, it makes sense that the "contribution" is also capped.

Unless you want to drop the whole charade and declare Social Security isn’t really a retirement insurance program and instead is the greatest transfer of wealth from the workers to the non-workers this country has ever seen.
 
Written By: Steverino
URL: http://
world dating online free subscription , vintage harmony electric guitar , adult euro model agency ,
 
Written By: kelsey micheals casting couch teens
URL: http://spypovs.com/kelsey-micheals-casting-couch-teens
"Huh?"

Don’t bother to try to make sense of it, just sit back and contemplate with awe. Evolution is obviously not as selective as some think.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
Don’t bother to try to make sense of it, just sit back and contemplate with awe. Evolution is obviously not as selective as some think.
I’m glad you said this, Tim; For a few I was thinking it was just me that couldn’t fathom that one. Personally, it’s always amazed me that so many who beleive firmly in evolution have never taken advantage of it.

 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitsblog.florack.us

 
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