Frankly, 50 years ago, talking about nationalizing any industry . . . would have been met with howls of protest and derision from the vast majority of Americans. I don’t agree. In the 30s, the left had all but won. CPUSA candidates did their best ever in presidential elections, and FDR was pushing various forms of fascism in the New Deal.
The 1930s was the farthest left the US ever went . . . .
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Written By:
Don
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Uh Don - the 30s isn’t "50 years ago" but it is one of the reasons that 50 years ago, such a proposal would have been met "with howls of protest and derision from the vast majority of Americans". The Cold War is the other. |
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Written By:
McQ
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Uh Don - the 30s isn’t "50 years ago" but it is one of the reasons that 50 years ago, such a proposal would have been met "with howls of protest and derision from the vast majority of Americans". The Cold War is the other. Yes, but the way I read your piece was that this is the farthest left we ever drifted . . .
We were still pretty much a "big government solution" country during the 50s and 60s. It is just that after WW2 the facade fell off the USSR, and out-and-out communism lost appeal. |
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Written By:
Don
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*ups his estimate of required ammo for the revolution by 10%* |
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Written By:
Scott Jacobs
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I’d love to see a cross referencing between the 30% of idiots who want to nationalize oil and those mental cripples who believe 9/11 was a govt job.
I’m sure you’ll find a significant correlation between one and the other.
I don’t believe it’s a left/right thing.
It’s a f**ktard/sane thing.
—Scott, unless you already had a starting estimate approaching that of a small country, you may need to up it by more than 10% ;) |
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Written By:
shark
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I’m not so sure that 20% are leftists, but rather I feel that life is imitating art as I see the last part of the plot of "Three Days of the Condor" playing out in real life.Higgins: It’s simple economics. Today it’s oil, right? In ten or fifteen years, food. Plutonium. Maybe even sooner. Now, what do you think the people are gonna want us to do then?
Joe Turner: Ask them?
Higgins: Not now - then! Ask ’em when they’re running out. Ask ’em when there’s no heat in their homes and they’re cold. Ask ’em when their engines stop. Ask ’em when people who have never known hunger start going hungry. You wanna know something? They won’t want us to ask ’em. They’ll just want us to get it for ’em! In the present case, the Democrats are trying their best to force the oil companies to go to "alternative energy." Frankly, I have no idea what "alternate energy’ can fill the gap in the short term. All of them have long lead times of a decade or more, so I’m dying to see if the MSM lets Obama, who has promised help at the pump, get away without ever defining just how he will help anybody at the pump.
I predict that "help at the pump" will go the way of the Clinton middle class tax cut. |
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Written By:
Neo
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Polls. You can make them say anything you want. Word it correctly and you can get 74% of mothers to agree that hot iron branding is an acceptable punishment for not eating one’s peas.
However, while I might not believe the numbers to be as high as that, I do believe you are correct in a way. Freedom and liberty require hard work. Our lives have progressively gotten easier over the decades and we expect that everything should be easier, including government. Sustaining liberty requires work that most people simply have no desire to engage in. Freedoms aren’t held in such high regard any more.
Look at Canada and the brouhaha over Mark Steyn. People are actually saying freedom of speech is a bad thing. In their eyes, of course, it is. For them, it’s better to not insult someone than have the ability to say what you wish. They don’t see the censure as a negative. They never lived in a society where they couldn’t speak out, so they see no reason to make such laws.
Soci@lism is coming, and it will be here faster than you think. Barack Rock the Casbah Obama is just the first step. You guys (along with myself) are part of a dying breed. While we might be able to instill the American ethos in our children, we’re outnumbered by people who consider American Idol to be quality entertainment and would give up the entire Bill Of Rights to ensure it stayed on the air.
Have a nice day! |
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Written By:
Robb Allen
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http://blog.robballen.com
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In the mean time, I expect the Democrats to ride the wave of "They’ll just want us to get it for ’em!" in a non-military, more political, sense to get whatever they want, using AGW to stop any idea of drilling our way out of the energy problem. |
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Written By:
Neo
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"Hi, we are doing a Rasmussen poll asking people if they would want to have the oil industry nationalized. On a scale of 1 to 5 how much would you want the oil industry nationalized, 5 meaning you agree completely and want oil prices reduced and the profits spent on various charities for children, 4 meaning you don’t want the profits to go to the chiiwdren who need them, 3 meaning you just want the oil industry nationalized a little bit, 2 meaning you don’t want anything to be changed at all, and 1 meaning you want things to become worse."
"Uh, I have no idea what you’re talking about."
"Ok, I’ll just put you down for ’not sure.’"
"Yeah fine."
In that case, 24% being "not sure" doesn’t sound so bad. |
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Written By:
jows
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Because we were a nation of immigrants, and because most of those who immigrated here came from situations in which government was abuse was intolerable, the group in the middle was very wary about granting government increased power over them. Immigration since WWII has been for personal economic reasons only for most. You’re romanticizing it if you think otherwise.
So you have people less interested in shedding government from their lives and as a consequence are more ready to put their hand out. Combine that with a broader immigration cross-section from places where the traditions of individual freedoms and the requisite independence and self-reliance that requires have not been as strong. |
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Written By:
jpm100
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I don’t believe it’s a left/right thing.
It’s a f**ktard/sane thing. Quoted for truth.Polls. You can make them say anything you want. Word it correctly and you can get 74% of mothers to agree that hot iron branding is an acceptable punishment for not eating one’s peas. Alright, y’all are on fire now."Hi, we are doing a Rasmussen poll asking people if they would want to have the oil industry nationalized. On a scale of 1 to 5 how much would you want the oil industry nationalized, 5 meaning you agree completely and want oil prices reduced and the profits spent on various charities for children, 4 meaning you don’t want the profits to go to the chiiwdren who need them, 3 meaning you just want the oil industry nationalized a little bit, 2 meaning you don’t want anything to be changed at all, and 1 meaning you want things to become worse." Would not be surprised at all if this is 95% of today’s polling dialogue...
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Written By:
rob
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JPM, couple that with a school system that emphasizes "self-esteem" as a given and nothing to work on with parents who don’t give a damn about their kids, and well we’re churning out plenty of those types of people here within our own shores just fine. |
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Written By:
Robb Allen
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Because we were a nation of immigrants, and because most of those who immigrated here came from situations in which government was abuse was intolerable, the group in the middle was very wary about granting government increased power over them. I disagree. The core of our individual rights ethos come from those who came from England, a nation that was evolving into a leading liberal democracy during the period when we were a colony.
The Founding Fathers actually rebelled against a relitively benign mother country.
One can further see this when the Texians (anglos living in Mexican Texas) rebelled against Mexico when Santa Anna overthrew the Mexican 1824 constitution and declared himself dictator, while most of Mexico submitted weakly.
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Written By:
Don
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I don’t say the above tersely.
Growing up in Canada, where diverse immigration was encouraged very early and aggressively. And we were told ’Canada is a mosaic of cultures like a stain glass window [of many pretty colors] while the US is a melting pot like some stew [which is just green muck]’.
So I got to know more that a few first generation immigrant children or children who came here as toddlers. And they were unabashed about their reasons for immigrating to Canada. Aside from the fact the line to the US was longer, it was for personal income.
And there was absolutely no acknowledgment the improved economy had anything to do with the different economic systems. Many of these immigrant were flat out social!sts if not commun!sts. Despite how they had it, they’d complain about all the stuff the weren’t being given free like they would in their home countries who were far ahead of Canada on the social!st scale at the time. I’d just shake my head.
Long story short, its been my personal experience that immigration today is dilutive to to the appreciation for individual freedom and self-reliance.
Its one of the reasons why I don’t like immigration of a kind that slows or inhibits assimilation. |
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Written By:
jpm100
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So, 29% of Americans want to see their energy delivered to them with the same caring as the VA and with the same efficiency as the postal service.
You can bet one thing...as soon as the government’s coffers become dependent on oil drilling for revenue (should nationalization take place,) not only will ANWR become fair game for drilling in a heartbeat, but coastal California and the gulf will have more rigs off their shores than they currently have environmentalists on them. Oil shale? Ring the cash register!
Environmentalists will win against "BIG OIL" every time. The government’s need to feed loses to no one.
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Written By:
Rougman
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You can bet one thing...as soon as the government’s coffers become dependent on oil drilling for revenue (should nationalization take place,) not only will ANWR become fair game for drilling in a heartbeat, but coastal California and the gulf will have more rigs off their shores than they currently have environmentalists on them. Oil shale? Ring the cash register! You wouldn’t be referring to this, would you? Found at Insty’s place who suggests "It’s as if it’s all just some sort of giant shakedown scheme." |
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Written By:
CR
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In my opinion, the percentage of people who are OK with big government are proportional to those who pay no income taxes. |
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Written By:
SD Mojo
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In my opinion, the percentage of people who are OK with big government are proportional to those who pay no income taxes DING DING DING! WE HAVE A WINNAH! |
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Written By:
shark
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Obama does best in state capitals and college towns full of academic types. The term academicians was phrased to describe his biggest supporters. Guess what academics and state workers have in common?
No, not education, but nice safe jobs with fat salaries that are insulated from the state of the economy or any competitive pressures. These are exactly the kind of people who wouldn’t mind some extra taxes to make them feel better because their income is so stable (and they can probably get a raise to cover it anyways) and of course, their employing agencies get those taxes as revenues.
Its like if company owners could vote themselves higher prices. |
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Written By:
Harun
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How much of a rebound from big gov was the Reagan era after the long era Democratic dominance? Was that a myth?
Back then I was a happy leftist willing to pay more taxes believing it was all great compassionate synergy on our way to Star Trek: The Next Generation when we would have abolished money and would be multicultural, multispecies, federated worlds, etc. I had the impression Reagan was undoing much of that wonderful progress.
Now I see these things differently and I’m hoping that absolute big government will not descend like a long gray night, and I kinda think it won’t because if the pain gets too great, people will do something. Before the US gets close to the brink, we will be watching Europe collapsing, and just maybe get a few clues from that.
Or maybe I’m naive. |
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Written By:
huxley
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How much of a rebound from big gov was the Reagan era after the long era Democratic dominance? Was that a myth?
Back then I was a happy leftist willing to pay more taxes believing it was all great compassionate synergy on our way to Star Trek: The Next Generation when we would have abolished money and would be multicultural, multispecies, federated worlds, etc. I had the impression Reagan was undoing much of that wonderful progress.
Now I see these things differently and I’m hoping that absolute big government will not descend like a long gray night, and I kinda think it won’t because if the pain gets too great, people will do something. Before the US gets close to the brink, we will be watching Europe collapsing, and just maybe get a few clues from that.
Or maybe I’m naive. Well, for the cries of bloody murder, you’d think that Reagan cut the government to 1/3.
But the actual cut was probably small enough that depending on how you manipulate inflation, you could wipe out the cut.
Reagan’s contribution was more about momentum. He stopped the momentum of Incremental Social!sm that had already consumed Europe and Canada in the 60s & 70s and was taking hold in the US during the mid to late 70s.
The incrementalism resumed at a slower rate after Reagan. Sped up some by Clinton & Big Government Republicans. And ready to resume full bore with Obama/Democrats. |
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Written By:
jpm100
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So, 29% of Americans want to see their energy delivered to them with the same caring as the VA and with the same efficiency as the postal service.
You can bet one thing...as soon as the government’s coffers become dependent on oil drilling for revenue (should nationalization take place,) not only will ANWR become fair game for drilling in a heartbeat, but coastal California and the gulf will have more rigs off their shores than they currently have environmentalists on them. Oil shale? Ring the cash register!
Environmentalists will win against "BIG OIL" every time. The government’s need to feed loses to no one.
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Written By:
Rougman
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"The government’s need to feed loses to no one."
I think you overrate the altruism and common sense of government bureaucracies and politicians. |
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Written By:
timactual
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Just to nitpick, 47% is a plurality rather than a minority, since it’s the largest bloc.
Mmmm, nits. High in crunch, and full of protein! |
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Written By:
Sigivald
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I had a conversation with a liberal last night night. He told me we were not in a war, and that he didn’t care if oil went to $10 a gallon, because it would make the country change it’s behavior. That’s what liberals want to do force us to change the way we live. Just listen to Michele Obama if you have any questions about that. I think we’ll continue to win these debates as long as we get our message out.
http://www.thenewconservatives.blogspot.com/
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Written By:
The New Conservative
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http://www.thenewconservatives.blogspot.com/
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If you want to read my comment, you will have to go to CG’s page and click in the comment line. QandO HAS BLACKLISTED IT FOR NO REASON. (And I have reported that to CG) I do not consider that responsible conservative journalism, and am in a quandry as to what is REALLY THE AGENDA here. |
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Written By:
posterior_sling
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If you want to read my comment, you will have to go to CG’s page and click in the comment line. QandO HAS BLACKLISTED IT FOR NO REASON. (And I have reported that to CG) I do not consider that responsible conservative journalism, and am in a quandry as to what is REALLY THE AGENDA here. Probably had a spam term in it and the blocker caught it.
Lately the word has been "soci*lism" because it has "ci*lis" in there. An unfortunate quirk of the system.
Don’t get all exercised over it and assume something that isn’t in evidence (i.e. we’re "blacklisting" your comment). I you were blacklisted, you wouldn’t have been able to post the comment you did. Just send me the comment and I’ll be glad to see it gets posted. My email is on the top left of the main page. |
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Written By:
McQ
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http://www.QandO.net
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