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That was then. This is now.
Posted by: Dale Franks on Monday, June 30, 2008

There was a time, and not too long ago, that some criticisms were so beyond the pale, that no politician would dream of using them to denigrate a political opponent. To do so would invite such a negative backlash that voters would reject in disgust the candidate who did so.

Those times, apparently, are past, at least for the candidate's supporters.

After General Wesley Clark's dismissal of John McCain's POW experience in Vietnam, yet another Obama supporter has stepped in with the same criticism.
While Barack Obama was urging supporters not to devalue the military service of rival John McCain, an informal Obama adviser argued Monday that the former POW's isolation during the Vietnam War has hobbled the Arizona senator's capacity as a war-time leader.

“Sadly, Sen. McCain was not available during those times, and I say that with all due respect to him," said informal Obama adviser Rand Beers. "I think that the notion that the members of the Senate who were in the ground forces or who were ashore in Vietnam have a very different view of Vietnam and the cost that you described than John McCain does because he was in isolation essentially for many of those years and did not experience the turmoil here or the challenges that were involved for those of us who served in Vietnam during the Vietnam war."

"So I think," he continued, "to some extent his national security experience in that regard is sadly limited and I think it is reflected in some of the ways that he thinks about how U.S. forces might be committed to conflicts around the world."
So, let's see if I got this straight.

If only John McCain had been able to attend the big anti-war demonstrations in '68, he would truly understand the human cost of committing American soldiers to a conflict. It would be a superior quality of understanding, you see, than the one he actually obtained by flying combat missions, being blown out of the sky by SAMs, captured, then subsequently being tortured by his captors for the next 5 and half years. He just doesn't understand the "challenges" that were involved in military service in Vietnam, or the "turmoil" at home.

After all, the only thing he did was endure years of torture and solitary confinement, turning down an early release from captivity, while keeping faith with his country and his fellow prisoners. And yet, receives this odd respect for this experience, as if it were worthy of it, rather than having it rightly understood as, really, a disqualifying event.



There was a time when Democrats, hearing this sort of thing, would have booed the speaker off the stage...or worse.

Now, they nod their heads in deep contemplation, as if that sentiment were anything other than a steaming pile of crap.

Meanwhile, Barack Obama's national security credentials consist of...
 
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Previous Comments to this Post 

Comments
I saw someone ask, in response to "What in McCain’s military record qualifies him to be COmmander in chief?"
"What in Obama’s military record qualifies him to be COmmander in Chief"
Only comment that beat that one was "Heck, what in his non-militry carreer..."
 
Written By: Scott Jacobs
URL: http://
Am I alone in hearing John McCain screaming, "Yippeee!"?

I’m serious. Beers and others must be working on the inside for McCain. Why else would they say stuff that gets Obama in trouble? If McCain does get elected, garbage like this will have played a part.
 
Written By: SpideyTerry
URL: http://
McCain is a pompous a$$ no question about it. However, by making such sissy-a$$ed attacks against him, Clark is quickly burning any credibility he earned over his military career just as Bubba burned any credibility he had a popular ex prez.

I guess its true, liberals really are nasty people.
 
Written By: tim stevens
URL: http://
Meanwhile, Barack Obama’s national security credentials consist of...
Hmmm. Opposing the biggest foreign policy disaster of the last 30 years.


 
Written By: mkultra
URL: http://
mkultra, I’m afraid history may point to other foreign policy disasters from 1968-2008 as worse than Iraq. That period includes Vietnam, where we lost more men, and lost the war to boot. It includes mishandling the revolution in Iran where many of our current problems started. It includes Gulf War I, where we probably should have gone and taken Saddam out of power then. It includes not killing Osama when we had chances to do so.

If you want to use US dead as a end-all be-all metric, Vietnam was the worst foreign policy disaster, and that war was of course started by Nixon in 1962, escalated by Ford and Reagan in 1966 and 1972 respectively, and finally ended by Clinton in 1975.
 
Written By: Harun
URL: http://
That last paragraph may have some errors in it. Could you have me fix them MK Ultra?
 
Written By: Harun
URL: http://
MK Ultra, did Obama really oppose Carter’s bumbling handling of the Iran hostage crisis? Good for him!

 
Written By: Jeff Medcalf
URL: http://www.caerdroia.org/blog
Opposing the biggest foreign policy disaster of the last 30 years.
Oh, so it’s been reduced from "biggest in history" to biggest in last 30 years. That’s quite a discount.

Actually, it’s been the best investment since the Louisiana Purchase. If the Party of Defeat doesn’t walk away from it, it will be the most significant change in the Middle East since Attaturk created modern Turkey out of the remains of the Ottoman Empire.

As I said before the surge got started, the only good news coming out of the Middle East was that there are 150,000 American troops on the ground in Iraq. That good news has translated into more good news, as Iraq moves closer to becoming a reasonably modern civil society in the middle of the most unstable region in the world.

And Obama’s "foreign policy experience" boils down to reading MoveOn.org emails about Iraq and feeding it back to them.
 
Written By: Martin McPhillips
URL: http://newpaltzjournal.com
So much for the concept that the attacks on McCain’s military service didn’t come from Obama’s camp, but rather came from Confirmed Idiot Wes Clark. With this note, all that illusion is gone.

Here it is, people...When the Obama supporters all start mouthing exactly the same nonsense... when clearly, Clark, for one, hasn’t the wit to come up with this stuff by himself, what we have here is an organized effort by the Obama camp. Obama’s been doing this all along; Surrogates end up saying the smears and other trash talk the campaign needs to spread, and when things get too hot because of what gets said, Obama simply tosses the speaker under the bus, and claims he’s running a ’clean campaign’, and he’s shocked.... shocked... that any of his people would come up with such a comment.
 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitsblog.florack.us
MK Ultra, did Obama really oppose Carter’s bumbling handling of the Iran hostage crisis? Good for him!
(Chuckle)
He was what, about 10 at the time?
 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitsblog.florack.us
He was what, about 10 at the time?
Yes, but he’s as smart and clever now as he was then.

Funny how the standard changed between 2004 and today though.

Kerry was a wounded hero, he was in Vietnam (and sometimes in Cambodia, and probably in other areas that are too secret to reveal, like, um Paris...for example...).

Bush was a draft dodger, yes, he flew, but didn’t fly dangerous missions and he wasn’t IN Vietnam.

McCain...oh darn, wounded hero, flew dangerous missions, didn’t dodge the draft and was actually IN the Vietnamese combat theater!

CRAP!

Sound the liberal battle cry!
"MOVE THE GOAL POSTS!"
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
I thought that all that was necessary for a Democratic candidate was to be able to ’feel your pain’. McCain would seem to have the necessary credentials for that.


"did not experience the turmoil here or the challenges that were involved "

So by this new metric, which rates higher, the ’turmoil here’ or actual combat experience? This could get to be a very complex rating system. Perhaps we need to bring back the system used in WWII to determine who was returned to the US first, with various numbers of points awarded for time overseas, awards and decorations, etc.

I hope I may be forgiven a little enlisted chauvinism, but this was pretty f****ing dumb, even for an officer. Then again, he was a marine.

 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
There’s gonna be so many bodies under the Obama bus, none of the wheels will even be touching the ground
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
that might explain why his fund-raising has slowed...
 
Written By: Scott Jacobs
URL: http://
On the bus thing, ya know, if Obama didn’t nail Clark for this there’d be an equal outcry for failure to disavow. So he’s damned of he does, damned if he doesn’t.

Not to defend the man by way of defending him, but we ought to reserve the thrown under the bus thing for people like Wright.
Clark jumped in front of the bus on this one. Funny, so few of the in the know political hacks who have gathered around Obama seem to be taking his philisophical ’don’t go there’ statements about how he’s running his campaign very seriously.
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
That is one of the most twisted, Orwellian bits of nonsense yet to come from the Obama camp; just sick. McCain pays as high a price as one could without actually being killed, but he has "limited understanding"?

I would think precisely the opposite, that he has TRUE understanding of the meaning of war, it’s human costs and complications. He is no armchair warrior. Obama’s closest experiences are "fighting" in local Chicago politics, but I don’t think it’s quite the same.

Even were Obama a decent fellow...he has surrounded himself with a number of indecent ones, and how many times can he possibly disavow every single one of these hateful, idiotic folks?
 
Written By: Maurice Sonnenwirth
URL: http://
that might explain why his fund-raising has slowed...
Obama hit his peak as a national figure in early March.

Now it’s "why, exactly, is this guy supposed to be something special?"

He’s lined up against a 70-year-old man who was at 8% in his own party this time last year and he’s margin of error with him in the Gallup tracking poll. Obama is a tiresome young man who should be doing commercial voice-overs, not running for President of the United States.

Even at MSNBC they seem to have come out of the trance and started wondering why they’re jerking off over this guy.

This is a "Prince of Liberals" who does more talking his way out of his own business than Bill Clinton did. And the creeps he has around him makes it quite a party. Has anyone checked out this Susan Rice character? I haven’t seen a fish that dead since...I don’t know...that Aaron Brown guy who was an anchor at CNN. But Brown lacked Susan Rice’s steely-eyed ignorance, so maybe he’s a bad comparative.
 
Written By: Martin McPhillips
URL: http://newpaltzjournal.com
Obama’s closest experiences are "fighting" in local Chicago politics, but I don’t think it’s quite the same.
Well, there is something to connect the two experiences. Obama gave himself up to Chicago politics in precisely the way that John McCain would not give himself up to his tormentors in the Hanoi Hilton.

Pardon that flutter of love for the old soldier.
 
Written By: Martin McPhillips
URL: http://newpaltzjournal.com
Methinks Martin has a tiny man-crush... :)

Just playin’ man. Don’t care for Sen. McCain myself, and even I’m very, very impressed with his conduct as a POW...
 
Written By: Scott Jacobs
URL: http://
Don’t care for Sen. McCain myself,
Neither do I.

But he was a brave man, and I can’t listen to that sort of jive about someone who went through that, especially in a North Vietnamese prison, and especially from Democratic political hacks.
 
Written By: Martin McPhillips
URL: http://newpaltzjournal.com
Sen Obama seems to have spent most of his political life surrounding himself with people who don’t know when to shut up. He’s going to spend the next several months regretting some of these choices.
 
Written By: Keith_Indy
URL: http://asecondhandconjecture.com
The pointless stupidity and nastiness of Beers’ remark is emphasized by the fact that even if we ignore those 5 1/2 years of imprisonment, McCain’s national security experience and qualifications for CinC still far surpass those of Obama. Now let’s compare legislative experience.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
Vietnam was the worst foreign policy disaster, and that war was of course started by Nixon in 1962, escalated by Ford and Reagan in 1966 and 1972 respectively, and finally ended by Clinton in 1975.
Am I deaf and dumb in both eyes ?

In 1962 Nixon was busy losing the Govenor’s house in California .. "you won’t have Nixon to kick around any more".

VietNam was nothing under Eisenhower, escalated by JFK (God rest his soul), and further escalated by LBJ, and lastly escalated by Nixon in 1968, ended under Ford in 1975. We won all the battles, except the battles with the press, and then lost the war.
 
Written By: Neo
URL: http://
"Am I deaf and dumb in both eyes ?"

Probably not, but you may be deficient in sarcasm detection.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
First, 2008 - 30 = 1978
Second, our problems with Iran started when we mishandled the events there in the fifties at the urging of the decrepit Churchill.
Third, yes there was a time when Democrats would have booed. That time was before the Purple Heart Bandaids. McCain and Republicans are reaping what Bush and Republicans spent the past 8 years sowing. Reap it!
 
Written By: Retief
URL: http://
So ... this guy is basically accusing McCain of being a chicken-chickenhawk?

If brainhurtingest isn’t a word, it ought to be just for occasions such as this.
 
Written By: Achillea
URL: http://
Fourth, no number of battles won in the service of propping up a deeply corupt and venal government, one that has zero chance of competing successfully for the people’s loyalty, will ever be sufficient to win the war.
 
Written By: Retief
URL: http://
First, 2008 - 30 = 1978
Thankfully, my birthday isn’t for 17 more days, so I’m off the hook. :)
Fourth, no number of battles won in the service of propping up a deeply corupt and venal government, one that has zero chance of competing successfully for the people’s loyalty, will ever be sufficient to win the war.
So you’re saying Chicago is lost?
 
Written By: Scott Jacobs
URL: http://

 
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