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AQI’s last stand
Posted by: McQ on Sunday, July 06, 2008

Seems as though AQI may be breathing its last as a viable fighting force in Iraq:
American and Iraqi forces are driving Al-Qaeda in Iraq out of its last redoubt in the north of the country in the culmination of one of the most spectacular victories of the war on terror.

After being forced from its strongholds in the west and centre of Iraq in the past two years, Al-Qaeda’s dwindling band of fighters has made a defiant “last stand” in the northern city of Mosul.

A huge operation to crush the 1,200 fighters who remained from a terrorist force once estimated at more than 12,000 began on May 10.
Operation Lion's Roar has been underway since May 10th (not that you'd know it if you depended on the media to keep you up to speed on how it's going now in Iraq). The result has been AQI's last stand.
The number of foreign fighters coming over the border from Syria to bolster Al-Qaeda’s numbers is thought to have declined to as few as 20 a month, compared with 120 a month at its peak.

Brigadier General Abdullah Abdul, a senior Iraqi commander, said: “We’ve limited their movements with check-points. They are doing small attacks and trying big ones, but they’re mostly not succeeding.”

Major-General Mark Hertling, American commander in the north, said: “I think we’re at the irreversible point.”
That, for a change, is a pretty definitive pronouncement if you ask me.

For the "no progress" crowd, I'm sure this stings.

Oh, and just a note in passing, the last of Saddam's yellowcake uranium, 550 metric tons, has been safely removed from Iraq - you know, the stuff he supposedly didn't have and had no interest in acquiring?
 
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For the "no progress" crowd, I’m sure this stings.
You know something, it does.

It has taken only over 4000 American lives and over 1 trillion dollars to get AQI to generate in Iraq and then to defeat them.

That is stinging.
 
Written By: mkuiltra
URL: http://
Oh, and just a note in passing, the last of Saddam’s yellowcake uranium, 550 metric tons, has been safely removed from Iraq - you know, the stuff he supposedly didn’t have and had no interest in acquiring?
From the article you linked to...

"Israeli warplanes bombed a reactor project at the site in 1981. Later, U.N. inspectors documented and safeguarded the yellowcake, which had been stored in aging drums and containers since before the 1991 Gulf War. There was no evidence of any yellowcake dating from after 1991, the official said."
 
Written By: mythbuster
URL: http://
McQ:

Please lay out the case that AQI was in Iraq before 2003. Please. And please cite your authorities.

Thank you.
"Israeli warplanes bombed a reactor project at the site in 1981. Later, U.N. inspectors documented and safeguarded the yellowcake, which had been stored in aging drums and containers since before the 1991 Gulf War. There was no evidence of any yellowcake dating from after 1991, the official said."
Now, now. Don’t upset the wingnuts.
 
Written By: mkultra
URL: http://
*YAWN*
\
MK, hunkered down in his bunker ’till the last.

Oh well, at least he didn’t start calling you racist or whatever -ist is in fashion with his talking points listserv today
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
Whoa, Mythbuster! You’re back. I see you’ve joined MK down there in the bunker. Seen the ghost of Adolf down there lately? Or Elvis? And still not having learned anything in the process. That’s too bad.

And by the way, just in case Erb is lurking around - Small steps there Erb. Small Steps!
 
Written By: SShiell
URL: http://
MK:
Please lay out the case that AQI was in Iraq before 2003. Please. And please cite your authorities.
Well, we know Zarqawi was there before 2003, and he was the head of AQI until he at a 500 pounder. So you tell me, MK.

And, of course, the imported fighters (at about 120 a month) constituted many of the 12,000 or so the article talks about who are most likely discussing the difference between virgins and grapes with Allah right now.

So I’d say that given the fact that thousands of al Qaida fighters are no longer with us, it’s been a pretty sucessful fight. And, of course - given the AQ claim that it would wipe the floor with US troops - a pretty unsuccessful one for AQ. They got exactly what they wanted (a confrontation with the Great Satan) and then lost. No AQI, no safe haven for future ops, no "caliphate".

Mythbuster:
"Israeli warplanes bombed a reactor project at the site in 1981. Later, U.N. inspectors documented and safeguarded the yellowcake, which had been stored in aging drums and containers since before the 1991 Gulf War. There was no evidence of any yellowcake dating from after 1991, the official said."
Which has no bearing whatsoever on what I said.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.QandO.net
Yet again, McQ’s answers demonstrate his lack of understanding, or possibly intellectual dishonesty. See, what mkultra understands (and you apparently don’t) is that *results* are not what matters. The results must be achieved in exactly the way they were predicted, and also in accordance with the expectations of we wise leftists. If you don’t achieve results that satisfy both points, those results just don’t matter. We wise leftists don’t have to accept them, and that of course means that we don’t have to even face the possibility of changing our minds because of them. My friend mkultra is just making sure that you dense righties have all that rubbed in your faces.

So forget all these dead terrorists, al Qaeda broken and on the run, etc. etc. Doesn’t mean a thing, because it wasn’t accomplished according to the standards we insist on.

They’re like the liquid metal terminator, anyway. They’ll just flow somewhere else and regroup. Because those noble savage fundamentalists just can’t be defeated. I decree it.

Besides, it’s a matter of axiomatic certainty that Bush can’t accomplish anything good. Even if he partners with Ted Kennedy on an education bill, he’s just so intrinisically bad and awful that no good can come from his administration. Just as no good can come from Iraq. As I’ve said before:
This has been a war of evil aggression, and we deserve to suffer the consequences. There is no honor in this war. It is the moral equivalent of any act of aggression, whether by the Third Reich, Japan, or any other aggressive power.
Don’t you get it? Bush is just like the Nazis and the militaristic Japanese. How come you dense righties can’t see this? You’re really thick, aren’t you?

It’s an obvious corrolary that no good come from such evil beginnings. Therefore all the stuff you throw up as supposed progress is just an illusion. It will come crashing down any time now. All we wise leftists have to do is keep on letting those brave noble savage fundamentalists know that they need to keep up the fight, and the violence will continue, and eventually we’ll elect Obama, who will kneel before various foreigners and admit total contrition for American actions for the last few decades. Then they’ll all forgive us and foreswear any acts of terrorism, and we can live in peace with all of them.

I know you mean righties just don’t believe this can happen. You have this perverse idea that we can somehow pressure people in the Middle East into becoming free and open societies. How thick can you get? They’re wogs! They’ll never figure out how to be a modern open society! They just love their corruption, I mean they just love it, and they’ll always be corrupt societies that need strongmen to keep order. What else can expect from wogs?

So thanks to my ideological brother mkultra for standing up for reason and morality in this forum. You dense, mean righties are lucky to have him. Especially since I’ve now devoted my time to my own blog, which you should come over there and read right now to be impressed with even more of eloquence and brilliance. And I don’t either come over here to pimp my blog and try to build up the traffic! Stop laughing!
 
Written By: Ott Scerb
URL: http://cluelessprof.maine.edu
uMKlU8 zdgewozcstpm, [url=http://tkatxpucpken.com/]tkatxpucpken[/url], [link=http://arzyojslfocg.com/]arzyojslfocg[/link], http://pqhzvucavjyh.com/
 
Written By: kljeou
URL: http://ajhdnjumambu.com/
if you are in any way implying that yellow cake = WMD i have a physics class you should take.
 
Written By: slntax
URL: http://
I’m implying exactly what I said.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.QandO.net
It has taken only over 4000 American lives and over 1 trillion dollars to get AQI to generate in Iraq and then to defeat them.
To safeguard a country of 25 million, formerly the most oppressed in the region (and that’s really saying something), is that price worth it?

I dunno about you but only 1 trillion dollars to win a war is amazingly cheap. Then again mk is probably spoiled by all of Clinton’s "wars" where troops were never deployed on the ground longer than one day.
 
Written By: jows
URL: http://
to get AQI to generate in Iraq
Are they involved in an alternative energy project. wow, and all I thought they were good for is composting.

and

Written By: mkuiltra
It’s bad when you forget how to spell your nom de guerre
 
Written By: capt joe
URL: http://
Whoa, Mythbuster! You’re back. I see you’ve joined MK down there in the bunker. Seen the ghost of Adolf down there lately? Or Elvis? And still not having learned anything in the process. That’s too bad.
I just posted a fact from the linked article.

But I did learn a lot about the process.

Post an unpopular (around here) fact, and the fact will not be disputed, but the person with the audacity to bring up a fact that contradicts a popular point of view will be attacked.

So if and when I post here, it will just be to point out facts, and I don’t see the point of debating facts. You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.

So what we have is the author implying that the President’s assertion that Saddam was attempting to aquire significant quantities of uranium were accurate.
you know, the stuff he supposedly didn’t have and had no interest in acquiring?
And we have a quote from the linked article that shows that yellowcake from prior to 1981 was removed.

The point being that the facts as we know them, contradict the authors implication that Saddam was acquiring yellowcake. What was there had been there since the US was an ally of Iraq.

Facts


 
Written By: mythbuster
URL: http://
Why is the fact that the yellowcake predated 1991 relevant? It doesn’t exactly have a short shelf life.

The whole UN inspector dance was supposed to find and control those kinds of problems after the 1991 war. The fact that the yellowcake existed, but wasn’t declared and wasn’t found, *supports* the position of those who believed Saddam was attempting to manufacture WMD and trying to hide anything he could from the inspectors. Therefore it supports the idea that inspections were not working. Therefore to an extent it supports the necessity for invasion.

By the way, that quite obvious reasoning from the yellowcake presence is why you didn’t get much of a reception. Post something that means something, and you’ll get a much better conversation going. Post something that has no bearing, or worse doesn’t support the very thing you claim it supports, and folks around here will figure you flunked Logic 101 and classify you as some variety of troll.

Which is still unproven, but the fact that you still don’t seem to get the point even after McQ pointed out the irrelevance of your remarks puts the weight on the side of suspecting that you are. If you’re not, come on back and prove it instead of whining that people are not taking you seriously.
 
Written By: Billy Hollis
URL: http://
Whoops, one of my edits got lost during my post. The UN inspectors did know about the yellowcake, and attempted to safeguard it while there were there. Of course there were not there for about five years between 1998 and 2003, so the point about the danger of the yellowcake still stands.
 
Written By: Billy Hollis
URL: http://
The fact that the yellowcake existed, but wasn’t declared and wasn’t found, *supports* the position of those who believed Saddam was attempting to manufacture WMD and trying to hide anything he could from the inspectors.
It was declared and routinely inspected, you loon.
 
Written By: Retief
URL: http://
The fact that the yellowcake existed, but wasn’t declared and wasn’t found, *supports* the position of those who believed Saddam was attempting to manufacture WMD and trying to hide anything he could from the inspectors. Therefore it supports the idea that inspections were not working. Therefore to an extent it supports the necessity for invasion.
Why would you say such a thing?

Seriously, did you surmise this, did you read it somewhere, did you make it up as you were writing it?

This all goes back to before 1981, when Iraq had a nuclear program, and the Israeli’s bombed the main facilities. The yellowcake from that nuclear program were identified, quantified, and safeguarded by the IAEA for the entire time, all the way up until the Iraq invasion in 2003. And the IAEA safeguards were NOT removed from Iraq when the weapons inspectors were.

So to say the yellowcake wasn’t declared or found is flat out false.

Link
 
Written By: mythbuster
URL: http://
Progress in Mosul, the Times cheerleading notwithstanding, looks decidedly mixed.
 
Written By: Retief
URL: http://
Whoops, one of my edits got lost during my post. The UN inspectors did know about the yellowcake, and attempted to safeguard it while there were there. Of course there were not there for about five years between 1998 and 2003, so the point about the danger of the yellowcake still stands.
Sorry about the you loon part then, Billy. But it actually was inspected in 2002.
 
Written By: Retief
URL: http://
if you are in any way implying that yellow cake = WMD i have a physics class you should take.
I guess your eyes just glaze over as you think out boobies whenever the words "Dirty bomb" are used...
 
Written By: Scott Jacobs
URL: http://
The yellow cake was securely behind an official UN seal. It would have taken technology Saddam didn’t have, like a bottle of Goof Off and a razor blade, to open it up for enrichment.

I guess your eyes just glaze over as you think out boobies whenever the words "Dirty bomb" are used...

Hehe, two libs and a cup :)

 
Written By: Augustus
URL: http://
I see some smarmy commenters not aware that al Qaeda was in Iraq pre invasion.

Maybe the admission of Saif al Adel, documents from Zarqawi, IIS documents, stories from the first troops in Iraq and admissions from members of Saddam’s police and military as well as admissions from al Qaeda members linked to KSM, Zawahiri and UBL isn’t something you were aware of...or maybe you just ignore it because it doesn’t fit your political view. I’ve documented all this stuff at www.regimeofterror.com and it’s all I write about there.

The arrogance of the antiwar crowd thinking that war supporters are happy or even content with the American casualties never ceases to sicken me but hey, why exactly do you want Saddam Hussein back in power?
 
Written By: Mark E
URL: http://regimeofterror.com
why exactly do you want Saddam Hussein back in power?
because he was anti-bush. It’s all about the 2000 election, always is and was.
 
Written By: capt joe
URL: http://
"The fact that the yellowcake existed, but wasn’t declared and wasn’t found,"

Sorry, but you should have read the link given by McQ. Here is a quote from it;

"Israeli warplanes bombed a reactor project at the site in 1981. Later, U.N. inspectors documented and safeguarded the yellowcake, which had been stored in aging drums and containers since before the 1991 Gulf War. There was no evidence of any yellowcake dating from after 1991, the official said."

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1107ap_iraq_yellowcake_mission.html

While this is certainly not proof that Sadaam was not trying to acquire more, it would seem to indicate that he was unsuccessful.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
UN inspectors...safeguarding....bwaaahahahahahahahahaha.

They have such a brilliant reputation in these departments.
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
Post an unpopular (around here) fact, and the fact will not be disputed, but the person with the audacity to bring up a fact that contradicts a popular point of view will be attacked.
And what fact did you bring out that disputed the blog entry? And who gives one hoot whether you post an unpopular entry around here? Me? Whether you live or die, post or don’t post, means little to me one way or another. Whether you post and catch flack for it? Well that comes with the territory.

Oh, and by the way. In case you feel abused by "the attack" I will offer the following: I am so sorry you have been abused in such a heinous way. You may go to your choice of Priest, Rabbi, Minister, or Iman (forgot this one last time) and get your card punched. Feel better now?
 
Written By: SShiell
URL: http://
What was there had been there since the US was an ally of Iraq.
Ally!? Dang the left just loves to invent its own history . . .
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
The point being that the facts as we know them, contradict the authors implication that Saddam was acquiring yellowcake. What was there had been there since the US was an ally of Iraq.

Facts
Yeah, he’s not irony challenged posting the word FACTS at the end of that.

Iraq broke off diplomatic ties with the US in 1967 as a result of the Arab-Israeli war and diplomatic ties, both admitted and clandestine, weren’t restored until 1982, which, I think, is factually WELL after the bombing of the Ossirac reactor in 1981 first by Iran and then by Israel. That reactor was what the yellow-cake was alleged to be for, a peaceful use for the Uranium, for those who wanted to believe that.

So, exactly HOW the facts are that the yellowcake was there from when Iraq was our ’ally’ is...um....yeah.....pretty much a made up fact.
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
So, exactly HOW the facts are that the yellowcake was there from when Iraq was our ’ally’ is...um....yeah.....pretty much a made up fact.
I said, "What was there had been there since the US was an ally of Iraq."

The US and Iraq were very much on the same side from 1982 until the invasion of Kuwait, and the yellowcake was there at that time.

It’s a fact.

What exactly are you quibbling about?

 
Written By: mythbuster
URL: http://
Oh, and by the way. In case you feel abused by "the attack" I will offer the following: I am so sorry you have been abused in such a heinous way. You may go to your choice of Priest, Rabbi, Minister, or Iman (forgot this one last time) and get your card punched. Feel better now?
I am not bothered by it, I was just making an observation.

If words on a blog hurt my feelings, it would be as pathetic as when people insult others on a blog for lack of an actual argument.









 
Written By: mythbuster
URL: http://
Ah, post bombing ally...I see....bad interepretation of the implication of being an ’ally’ for a several years.
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
The US and Iraq were very much on the same side from 1982
No, that’s not even remotely true. The US made sure that neither Iraq nor Iran won their war. That’s hardly being on the same side.
 
Written By: Steverino
URL: http://
No, that’s not even remotely true. The US made sure that neither Iraq nor Iran won their war. That’s hardly being on the same side.
From the ridiculous to the sublime.

It was never the policy of the US to insure that Iran did not lose that war, it WAS the policy of the US to insure that Iraq did not lose that war, and we put vast resources in play towards that goal of assisting Iraq in not losing that war. Semanticize it all you want, we were helping Iraq, as in supporting, as in allied with, as in ALLY, as in ON THE SAME SIDE.

You can’t honestly say that it is not evidence of alliance when the US provided on the ground strategic and tactical support, use of our satellite resources, opened up weapons sales and dual use technologies, and handed them cash, or can you? I certainly hope our military officers who found themselves ordered to the front lines of this war were under the impression we were allied with Iraq.

I will agree that a draw was decided to be in the best interests of the US, as either emerging with total victory would certainly change the balance of power in the Middle East for the foreseeable future with potentially dire consequences for the global energy markets.

Reagan allied with Iraq in pursuit of a draw, but some genius has since upset the balance of power in the region, but that’s another story that is beaten death around here, but rarely ever touches on this contradiction.

Was Reagan wrong to maintain the balance of power?

Was GHW Bush wrong to want to maintain the balance of power?

Was GW Bush right to upset the balance of power?

One of these guys is not like the other guys, here’s a hint, look for the codpiece.





 
Written By: mythbuster
URL: http://

 
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