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Georgia vs Finland
Posted by: Lance on Sunday, August 10, 2008

Zbigniew Brzezinski strikes a note from our discussion on tonights podcast and compares the invasion of Georgia with Stalin's assault on Finland. If Georgia can hold up the military end of that analogy it would be quite impressive. I am not holding my breath.
 
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Well, George, what do you think of Pooty-Poot now?
 
Written By: Billy Hollis
URL: http://
Except that Finland didn’t attempt a military offensive against a rebellious territory inside their own country that had Russian peace-keepers in it.

This is just giving the Russians the Kosovo excuse.
 
Written By: Harun
URL: http://
Harun is right — Georgia tried to use the cover of the olympics to invade South Ossetia where the people consider themselves Russian, have Russian passports, and were guarded by Russian peace keepers. Now, how that dispute — legally Georgian, but the people want self-determination to be Russian — should be settled is tricky. But Georgia decided to use military action to force a settlement, and Russia responded in the same way America would have if the shoe were on the other foot. It is like Kosovo. I disagree with Russia’s decision (as I disagreed with Clinton’s in 1999), but I hold the Georgian government in about the same esteem as the government of Slobodan Milosevic in 1999.


http://scotterb.wordpress.com/2008/08/09/georgia-on-my-mind/

http://scotterb.wordpress.com
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
but I hold the Georgian government in about the same esteem as the government of Slobodan Milosevic in 1999
Well SURE Doc, he’s just like him...I mean he was going to force the Ossetians out of Ossetia? Or was he flooding Ossetia with Georgians?
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
Heh, I was going to put up a little disclaimer about how this was the story so far as I had read... and I just did read that the Ossetians may have attacked Georgian troops first, and its suspicious that Russia was so ready to go at a moments notice. Then again, the Georgians have been building up their forces as well...

In any case the Georgians should have played their hand a little better if they were attacked first.
 
Written By: Harun
URL: http://
Wow. Scott is carrying water for Russian agression. Who would have thought.
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
Mexico levels a few Texas towns with tanks and artillery in order re-take the former Mexican territory of Texas. The US responds with overwhelming military force. The world calls the US the aggressor.

Hopefully, we can see the dangers of expanding NATO. The US should not be giving protection to nations like Georgia who could with their reckless invasion and attack initiate WWIII and ultimately lead to a nuclear exchange with Russia. Is the battle in Georgia worth the end of civilization?
 
Written By: Tom
URL: http://
The US should not be giving protection to nations like Georgia who could with their reckless invasion and attack initiate WWIII and ultimately lead to a nuclear exchange with Russia. Is the battle in Georgia worth the end of civilization?
Tell me you are trolling or being darkly sarcastic.... "distant land about which we know little" in reference to Czechoslovakia, by Prime Minister Chamberlain. After all the Czech’s were oppressing the Sudetenland Germans, just as the Poles were oppressing the Volk Deutsche in Danzig, right?

If you’re not trolling or being darkly sarcastic, be sure to give Pat Buchanan my best or would that be Medea Benjamin?
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
Here is a little history lesson: The United States did not go to war with Germany over Czechoslovakia. In fact, Germany declared war on the US. If Georgia was a part of NATO we would now be part of military conflict against Russia based on the reckless military adventurism of a NATO member.

Pat Buchanan is in good company with such unknown political figures as Thomas Jefferson, "Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations—entangling alliances with none, I deem [one of] the essential principles of our government, and consequently [one of] those which ought to shape its administration."; and George Washington, “The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is, in extending our commercial relations to have with them as little political connection as possible.”
 
Written By: Tom
URL: http://
Pat Buchanan is in good company with such unknown political figures as Thomas Jefferson, "Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations—entangling alliances with none, I deem [one of] the essential principles of our government, and consequently [one of] those which ought to shape its administration."; and George Washington, “The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is, in extending our commercial relations to have with them as little political connection as possible.”
In good company with gentlemen who fought France (1798) the Barbary Pirates (1804), too...

Libertarians and Paleo-Conservatives like to live in the world of 1789-1804 or 1823 because it allows them to expect others to do the heavy lifting of International Regime maintenance, rather than acknowledging that it is the US that must perform the maintenance or allow the system to fall apart.

And IF the US had stood with France and Britain, in the 1930’s, Germany would never have gotten away with what it did...

And yes, Tom I know history, my point, which rightly you wish to ignore, is that others once faced aggression and FAILED to act, because of the legitimate grievances of the aggressor.

So again so hello to Pat Buchanan, and tell him can Er kann mich im Arsche lecken to keep with the German theme.
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
Wow. Scott is carrying water for Russian agression. Who would have thought.



Yeah, and the justification is the (declining, quagmired, failed policy) US would do the same thing. What he bases that on is beyond me....thin air research?

Oh boy.
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
Joe,
In good company with gentlemen who fought France (1798) the Barbary Pirates (1804), too...
Washington and Jefferson did not fight France in 1798. It is interesting that the US Congress removed itself from all Treaties with France in that year. It no longer would be engaged in entangling alliances with France. A very interesting peace of history. The French revolution and the European wars that it preceded was the cause for American neutrality. So far from fighting France and getting in engaged in European entanglements, the US took a stand of neutrality. Hmmm.
And yes, Tom I know history, my point, which rightly you wish to ignore, is that others once faced aggression and FAILED to act, because of the legitimate grievances of the aggressor.
Your demonstrated knowledge of history is bunk.
 
Written By: Tom
URL: http://
You’re rigth it was the SECOND US POTUS, J Adams that fought that war...tell me did that make it ILLEGAL? Oh and that declared US Neutrality was it maintained with France, by WORDs, or by combat and that neutrality with England, how did that turn out? Oh that’s right we went to WAR with the UK....

Oh Yeah, Tom I was crushed by this....
Your demonstrated knowledge of history is bunk.
That minor in European history, man all I needed was you to write to me here and the scales, they FELL from my eyes, whatever was I thinking? I guess I was thinking that folks decided that it was easier to let the weak go to the wall than stand up, ESPECIALLY if they could tell themselves that Herr Hitler had LEGITIMATE complaints about Czechoslovakia or Poland...and your larger point no alliances, so I guess NATO was evil, too, right making us hostage to the good behavior of a bunch of Revanchist Neo-Nazi’s in the BRD or allying ourselves with a set of aggressive Imperial Powers like Britain or France? Much better to wait until the only options left are to bow to Tyrany or to wage a Crusade against it, rather than to try to head it off early.

So you trot on back and tell Lew Rockwell and the Buchananites that you’re fighting the good fight with the International Jewish Conspiracy for the sake of the good ole US of A, and the good Anglo-Celtic Folk that made it what it is today, ’Kay?
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
To be fair, Scott probably posted that BEFORE the Russians occupied actual Georgian cities instead of just retaking S. Ossetia and bombing a few targets.

I still don’t get why the Georgians attacked or counter-attacked S. Ossetia...you’d think they would wait for NATO membership or get their troops home from Iraq first? Uhhh, and maybe get their first shipments of Javelins or something?
 
Written By: Harun
URL: http://
Actually Joe, you had a point with Jefferson, who was plenty interested in entangling alliances. He wanted us to side with France. It was Hamilton and Adams who feared France would turn into a despotism. Of course, all three had their moments of madness.

As for the comparison of Mexico and Texas, pretty weak. A better comparison would be Mexican Americans deciding they wanted to have their own autonomous part of Texas with the goal of having it absorbed into Mexico. We go in and try and stop it, and Mexico intervened. Of course, for the analogy to work Mexico would have to be a lot tougher nut, and us a lot weaker.

As for Erb:
to invade South Ossetia where the people consider themselves Russian, have Russian passports, and were guarded by Russian peace keepers.
Let us rewrite that:

to invade South Texas where the people consider themselves Mexican, have Mexican passports, and were guarded by Mexican peace keepers.
You see Erb, you can’t invade your own country, even if some people decide a part of it it shouldn’t be a part of that country, even if another power they prefer moves in and hands out passports and installs peacekeepers.

I am not justifying the Georgian position or behavior, but your characterization is tendentious and false.
 
Written By: Lance
URL: http://asecondhandconjecture.com
"Is the battle in Georgia worth the end of civilization?"

Although it is a bit overstated, I think the question deserves an answer; are you ready to go to war over Georgia, Slovenia, etc?
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
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