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That didn’t take long
Posted by: McQ on Wednesday, October 08, 2008

I sometimes wonder why we bother.

"Friend" one said today:
In a speech delivered to European leaders at a conference hosted by President Nicolas Sarkozy of France to discuss the international financial crisis, Mr Medvedev sought to show that the United States was at the root of all the world's problems.

He blamed Washington's "economic egotism" for the world's financial woes and then accused the Bush administration of taking Europe to the brink of a new cold war by pursuing a deliberately divisive foreign policy. He also maintained that the United States was once again trying to return to a policy of containing Russia.

"After toppling the Taliban regime in Afghanistan, the United States started a series of unilateral actions," Mr Medvedev said. "As a result, a trend appeared in international relations towards creating dividing lines. This was in fact the revival of a policy popular in the past and known as containment."
Huh. No mention of that little incursion into a soverign country or anything. I'm sure our other "friends" stuck up for us, no?

Uh, no:
The Russian president won fulsome praise from Mr Sarkozy after he announced that all Russian troops had been withdrawn from buffer zones around Georgia's rebel enclaves of South Ossetia and Abkhazia before Friday's deadline for a pull out.

Describing his guest as a man who had "kept his word", Mr Sarkozy immediately declared that talks on an EU-Russia partnership deal, suspended as punishment for Russia's military operation in Georgia, could resume.
What, 2 months after carving up Georgia - how nice.

But wait, there's more:
Russia has also mended fences with Germany, concluding a new bilateral energy deal and winning assurances from Angela Merkel, the chancellor, that Berlin would not support granting Georgia or Ukraine Nato candidate status when the alliance meets in December.
Europe - what would we do without it?
 
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Russia has also mended fences with Germany, concluding a new bilateral energy deal and winning assurances from Angela Merkel, the chancellor, that Berlin would not support granting Georgia or Ukraine Nato candidate status when the alliance meets in December.
This seems rather odd given the chancellors reputation as a conservative. Perhaps she believes the 2 countries do not require German support to join nato? or is there something more that isn’t quite so obvious?
 
Written By: mac
URL: http://
The Europeans know that trying to punish Russia is stupid. The US has to accept that we are no longer leaders of the western alliance. The Europeans will follow their own rational self-interest. Note that Sarkozy and Merkel are conservatives. Perhaps NATO has served its purpose and should be ended.

Anyway, the US has been hypocritical about Georgia. Georgia invaded South Ossetia, which wanted autonomy and had already been under self-rule. The South Ossetians greeted the Russians as liberators, and fear Georgian rule. So Russia is sort of acting like the US acted in Kosovo. This is the kind of double standard which leads so many to believe the US lacks an ethical core.
http://scotterb.wordpress.com/2008/08/22/a-new-cold-war/
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
So Russia is sort of acting like the US acted in Kosovo.
except for the glaring difference of no genocide.

Really? comparing South Ossetia to Kosovo?

That was just stupid, Erb.
 
Written By: Joel C.
URL: http://
No, erb is merely a moral contortionist. There are some ideologies that require such things.
 
Written By: jorgxmckie
URL: http://
No, erb is merely a moral contortionist
I thought that was the requirement to be a university prof. Certinaly is a common observable.
 
Written By: capt joe
URL: http://
At what point do we leave the Europeans to Prof. Erb’s concept of "rational self-interest" (which apparently involves indentured servitude to the new Russian Empire, unless their unassimilated radical Muslim populations wipe them out first), cut our losses, and worry about the parts of the world that a) actually matter, b) could actually be useful, and c) want to live in freedom?
Europe - what would we do without it?
Love to find out.

 
Written By: HobbesDFW
URL: http://
The Europeans know that trying to punish Russia is stupid.
Man Scott, would that we could punish you...
 
Written By: meagain
URL: http://
Perhaps the EU folks realized that President Ovomit would never come to their aid so it’s time to genuflect to the Russian Bear?
 
Written By: The Old Man
URL: http://
Joel, you obviously don’t know history. There was no genocide in Kosovo. In fact, the refugee crisis started AFTER NATO started bombing. Please, post your evidence that we were reacting to a genocide in Kosovo. You are, quite clearly, clueless.
http://scotterb.wordpress.com

I notice that while you guys can make snide comments, you can’t actually counter my claims. The reason: I’m right, and you know it.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
"except for the glaring difference of no genocide."

"Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
It was, and still is, the responsibility of the president of Georgia to protect, nurture, and defend the fragile freedoms his people acquired after the fall of the Soviet Union. For years, he has protested repeatedly that the Russians were trying to provoke him into starting a war. Congratulations to him for finding the exact vehicle to make the Russians come into his country (if one watches the videos from Georgia, the Russian tanks crawled into Georgia at a speed of about 25 miles per hour; this was no blitzkrieg).

The Georgian president’s unilateral decision to suddenly assert Georgian sovereignty in autonomous South Ossetia (S/O is not less than 80% Russian citizens—perhaps as much as 95% Russian citizens) has to stand as one of the most suicidal political decisions of all time. (Just how should a rational person behave if he has to sleep immediately next to the fangs and claws of a massive bear every night? Certanly, not provocatively!).

Early news reports stated that 1,200 South Ossetians (Russian citizenship) died in the first Georgian bombardment. Later accounts mentioned 2,000 dead. The undeniable fact is that Georgian military forces were bombarding Georgians who did not want to be Georgians. The next day, the sky was filled with MIGS and Russian troops were pouring through the Roski tunnel.

And this idiot wants to join NATO? With alles like him, who needs an enemy? The man is erratic; dangerously so. The commitments by Germany and France to Russia to keep Georgia out of NATO are based on their assessment of the costs and benefits to their peoples of NATO membership for Georgia.

They are not going to have psychologically erratic heads of state provoking war by NATO.

Unlike the American government (Iran in 1979; Lebanon in the 1980’s; Mogadishu, etc), the Russians are extremely serious about protecting the lives of Russian citizens...and always have been. Guess the Georgia president forgot his Russian history, just who he has to sleep next to every night, and what it takes to protect the freedom of your people.

 
Written By: a Duoist
URL: http://www.duoism.org
post your evidence that we were reacting to a genocide in Kosovo. You are, quite clearly, clueless.
1) We began bombing in Yugoslavia at the end of March 1999.
2) The UN war crimes charges against Milosevic were for:
- crimes against humanity in Croatia between 1991 and 1992
- genocide in Bosnia between 1992 and 1995
- crimes against humanity in Kosovo between January and June 1999

It is clear that the world had reason to believe that Milosevic was ready to begin another genocide in Kosovo unless someone acted against him. His crimes had already begun in Kosovo before the bombing campaign.

The humanitarian weasel, also known as Erb, obviously thinks the world needs to wait until a government is deep into the genocide before others can act against it. Previous acts of documented genocide don’t count.
 
Written By: JWG
URL: http://
We need to pull out of Nato, they EU can take care of themselves, or not. I don’t care which.
 
Written By: kyleN
URL: http://impudent.blognation.us/blog
Lets just move out all our forces from other countries except israel and give the rest of the louts the finger. Damn those who complain about it, not our problem.
 
Written By: josh b
URL: http://
Stratfor mentioned this in their daily podcast this week (Monday 10/6/08 IIRC) and they made the point that Germany is not going to carry water for the US when they care a whole lot more about Russian petrosupplies than being the front line in an American effort to establish a sphere of influence in the old Warsaw Pact. Merkel will let Kiev fall before she lets Germans freeze.
 
Written By: nmj3e
URL: http://
Yeah, JWG, but you just don’t know history.

I mean... what else is there to say?
 
Written By: Billy Beck
URL: http://www.two—four.net/weblog.php
Eurosissies don’t want their protectors spread to thin? What’s the matter, afraid the new guys will make you look bad and provide soldiers who actually fully participate in NATO?
 
Written By: Malika
URL: http://
Eurosissies
yep, that is right
 
Written By: capt joe
URL: http://
Meagain, what would you punish me for — disagreeing with your belief on what the party line should be? How Stalinist of you. Face it, this is what it’s like when a great power is decline. Suddenly our desires are not so important, and our ability to shape events isn’t there. Get used to it. Or get mad at the messenger. But I agree that the US should leave NATO. A lot of Europeans won’t mind, it’s not like we’re protecting them from anything, even if some Americans seem to think we are.
http://scotterb.wordpress.com
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
Face it, this is what it’s like when a great power is decline. Suddenly our desires are not so important, and our ability to shape events isn’t there. Get used to it.
The common unifying characteristic of left-wingers is the almost gleeful delight they take in what they perceive as America’s comeuppance. For them (and Erb), it substitutes as thoughtful analysis.
Perhaps the EU folks realized that President Ovomit would never come to their aid so it’s time to genuflect to the Russian Bear?
The Old Man comes a lot closer to the truth than Erb’s fervently wished-for decline of US power. Western Europe has already decided to roll over for its two primary antagonists - the Russians and their own Muslim populations - in exchange for what they hope will be a comfortable serfdom. It won’t be, but Western Europe just doesn’t have the stomach for the struggle.

In fairness to Obambi, this decision has little or nothing to do with who will be the next president of the US; it would happen under a McCain presidency as well. In truth, when there was only one such antagonist (Soviet Union), it took both the US and UK (then led by an actual ally in Thatcher) to put steel into Western Europe’s spine. Now we have one less ally (no more Thatchers in the UK, I fear) and they have one more adversary. We won’t be able to save them this time, and they won’t save themselves.

But that says nothing about our position in the world. It’s simply time to find some new allies to share our permanent interests.

 
Written By: HobbesDFW
URL: http://
The Europeans will follow their own rational self-interest.
Uh....wait....
The Europeans will follow their own rational self-interest.

There, now having corrected part of your work Mr Erb, I suggest you re-write the paper properly and I’ll consider moving your grade from a D to a C-


 
Written By: looker
URL: http://

 
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