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Dissent: The Highest Form of Patriotism
Posted by: Dale Franks on Monday, November 10, 2008

Ah. Well. That didn't take long...

From the cops' point of view, it was easier to just arrest they guy, than allow him to start a riot with his intentionally inflammatory T-shirt, with it's hateful message of "McCain - Palin" written across the front.
 
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Previous Comments to this Post 

Comments
Could someone be kind enough to shoot a verbal on what the T-Shirt said. No U-toob here at work.
 
Written By: jpm100
URL: http://
It said "McCain - Palin" on the front.
 
Written By: Dale Franks
URL: http://www.qando.net
Ah, well. That would be why...

Yeah, I didn’t think dissent would remain all that patriotic...
 
Written By: Scott Jacobs
URL: http://
pedro’s confused (obligatory softball for my compadres), what is the point of this post? to demonstrate el presidente’s amazing reach, all the way to the streets of philly? if so, si, i am impressed by el jefe’s ability to telepathically control street cops. or maybe it’s senor dean that’s pulling the strings?

pedro thought perhaps the cops really don’t give a crap, they just wanted to prevent one idjit from getting beaten like a gong. they call that ’protective custody’, no? but i’ll defer to the free market wizards because they have a proven track record of being correct. oh wait, they don’t! aieee, yiii, yaieee, i am the frito bandito!
 
Written By: pedro the illegal alien
URL: http://
prevent one idjit from getting beaten
Evidently wearing a shirt that has a name other than the Messiah’s is now reason for violence according to Pedro. Perhaps you listened to the crowd chanting "Lock him up" over and over again?

Thanks for making the point.
 
Written By: JWG
URL: http://
I suspect Pedro was in front of the Denver Mint during the DNC...
 
Written By: Scott Jacobs
URL: http://
Does "protective custody" usually involve handcuffs, pedro? They were pretty rough about "protecting" him, too.

The police don’t have an obligation to protect any Joe Citizen, when you get down to it, except perhaps indirectly. Their job is to find, detain, and help prosecute people suspected of crimes.

Like the guy who stole this McCain-Palin guy’s plastic sword shortly before the cops dragged the guy aside. Or anybody who laid a hand on the guy because of a political statement.
 
Written By: Bryan Pick
URL: http://www.qando.net
pedro thought perhaps the cops really don’t give a crap, they just wanted to prevent one idjit from getting beaten like a gong. they call that ’protective custody’, no? but i’ll defer to the free market wizards because they have a proven track record of being correct. oh wait, they don’t! aieee, yiii, yaieee, i am the frito bandito!
Oh, no Bryan, the roughing up was part of ’protecting’ him. Next time they’ll maybe think to ’protect’ the guys taking pictures too.
Pedro might see this different if it had been a guy with a Mexican flag walking into a crowd of US flag wavers. I’m sure of it in fact, because Pee-drow has demonstrated again and again he is enlightened and open minded and is interested in the same laws for everyone.



 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
Next time they’ll maybe think to ’protect’ the guys taking pictures too.
Yeah, they "protected" (assaulted) the camera man as well
 
Written By: capt joe
URL: http://
I don’t know where exactly the idea that this is some kind of First Amendment policy statement about the Obama administration, but I will agree that police in this country are way out of line far too often.

I tend to think that police often seem to be of a mind that "protect and serve" means kick the crap out of anyone that isn’t serving them precisely the respect and subservience they desire.


I was in Denver for the DNC and there were these guys with megaphones going into the audience areas of all of the networks remote studios. The networks had rented this space, so for the period they rented it, it was private property, and they had the right to ask anyone to leave for any reason. The megaphone guys (you probably heard them over the pundits at the DNC and RNC shouting "9/11 was an inside job" over their megaphones. Anyway, the police asked them to leave the immediate area and showed them the nearest public property they could avail themselves of. I saw this happen at least five times, and four times the "9/11 truthers" quietly acquiesced to the officers requests and there was no incident. But one time, the guys argued they had a right to use their megaphones on this temporarily private property, and they were arrested, for trespassing. I do have to say the Denver cops were pretty decent and not as jackbooted as cops can be.

But it’s kind of funny how Republicans are generally the first people to say that the cops are right when they go Rambo, and the black kid they may have shot in the back should have listened when they told him to freeze.

I don’t know what the full story is here, but it’s certainly not a reflection of Obama’s First Amendment policy, since 1. Obama isn’t President, and 2. If he were President, he wouldn’t be President of the Philly police.




 
Written By: CaptinSarcastic
URL: http://
I don’t know what the full story is here, but it’s certainly not a reflection of Obama’s First Amendment policy
Actually it is.

See Kurtz, Stanley

 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
It said "McCain - Palin" on the front.
d’oh. That’s not really what I had meant to ask. Teaches me for trying to work and surf. It interferes with the surfing too much.
 
Written By: jpm100
URL: http://
I do have to say the Denver cops were pretty decent and not as jackbooted as cops can be.
They did, however, stand by and let a crowd surround one woman and verbally assault her, calling for her death...

But hey, no big thing, right?

I think you’re missing the message here, bubba...
 
Written By: Scott Jacobs
URL: http://
They did, however, stand by and let a crowd surround one woman and verbally assault her, calling for her death...
I didn’t see that.
But hey, no big thing, right?
No, I would call that a big thing, they should have protected her and arrested anyone that assaulted her.
I think you’re missing the message here, bubba...


What is that message, that cops violate people’s rights constantly?

Tell me what you think the message is.

 
Written By: CaptinSarcastic
URL: http://
that cops violate people’s rights constantly?
that’s what this is.

Like the people who worked for Obama not getting paid in Illinois (or wherever) we can hardly blame Obama for it.

More to the point, he’s NOT President yet, so...if anything, this is Bush’s administration in operation.

And I don’t trust Obama much, but let’s not turn him into a villain as powerful as Lord Bush just yet.
All in due time.
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
This is ridiculous.

The dude was crashing a party. You can’t tell me his intent wasn’t to cause a ruckus. Especially when the guy brings along his buddy to “document” the episode.

This isn’t about protecting first amendments rights, this is about protecting the stupid.

Have you ever witnessed a college football game, where the winner or loser takes his school spirit in the form of paraphernalia down to the local hangout to either gloat or to cause trouble?
I have, many times.

Dude, I have been asked to leave a party many times (I know… shocker), and it doesn’t matter whether I was in the right or no, in order to preserve the peace, you have to accommodate the police. And if you don’t, you get arrested.

I cannot believe this is even an issue with some of you.

Besides, the video is incomplete. We have no idea of what was done or said before hand.
Maybe the guy was being a dick and deserved to be arrested.

Cheers.
 
Written By: PogueMahone
URL: http://
It reminds me of my friend in SF back during the first gulf war. He went down to the local protest and one thing led to another and he was given a ticket by the police.
I don’t remember what the ticket was for, perhaps disturbing the police or trespassing, but he took the ticket home and one of his hippie friends told he should “frame his protest ticket”.

Talk about wearing your dissent on your sleeve. Or in this case, preserving your dissent in memorandum as a badge of honor.

Same kind of BS here.
 
Written By: PogueMahone
URL: http://
Especially when the guy brings along his buddy to “document” the episode.
Hell Pogue, that’s no indication, hand held cameras are everywhere.
I have one of the damned things in my pocket (why my phone needs to take videos is beyond me...)
And tell my you never took a buddy along to any of these parties you were asked to leave.
So the fact there is film on Youtube doesn’t mean a lot about planning ahead of time.

Do we believe his car was parked on the far side of the ’party’ or not?
Could it have been?
Sure, course it could have.
He goes out with a bunch of buddies to a place where McCain/Palin supporters are mumbling "wait till next year!" into their beer.
They finish up and head back to their cars and find an Obama rally has mysteriously broken out ....

Not impossible.
Should he remove his t-shirt before walking through the crowd?
Can’t he be proud of his choice even if his side lost?

Do I believe that’s what happened?
Skeptical, but it’s as plausible as assuming he walked in there hoping to get his @ss kicked by an angry crowd.
Think about it, you’re saying he was hoping, what?
To get ’saved’ by the police? To get his @ss severely kicked by a crowd so they could get it on film and that would do, what?
Prove Obama was...Not there to stop it?


As for deserving arrest - unless you watched a different one that I saw, the cops asked him to go away, or take off the shirt, or whatever it was they were mumbling without arresting him.

If he’d been a dick already, we wouldn’t be seeing them asking him to go around or take off the shirt. They’d already be at the "don’t taze me bro!" stage when the video went live.

This is just cops doing what we bitch about regardless of who’s in charge.
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
The police don’t have an obligation to protect any Joe Citizen, when you get down to it, except perhaps indirectly. Their job is to find, detain, and help prosecute people suspected of crimes.
So they have no preemptive role at all? They’re supposed to stand idly by while the sh!t hits the fan? And only when the sh!t hits the fan, they are to react?

I don’t think so, man.

It reminds me of the Sugar Bowl in NO a few years ago. A guy was passed out on the street while a bunch of us hovered over him laughing. A group of cops walked up and conversed with each other as to what to do with the unconscious fellow. One of the cops turned to the other and said, “You know what we need down here in the French Quarter?”
And I chimed in unsolicited, “Wheelbarrows?”
He said, “No, wheelchairs.”
I said, “Yeah, that would be better than wheelbarrows.”

I don’t know why that reminded me of that, but I could plainly see that the cops were there in the first place to try and prevent things from getting out of hand. Turns out the Tigers beat the Hokies that night, and all things remained calm.
And I was glad the cops were there, even without wheelchairs.
 
Written By: PogueMahone
URL: http://
And tell my you never took a buddy along to any of these parties you were asked to leave.
I never go anywhere without mah posse. Or at least back in the day when I thought I was all that.
My adventures are legendary. At least in my own mind. And a few of my close friends.
Don’t believe me? Just go to Norman, OK and ask several million people until you locate one Jeremy Bonahm. He’ll tell you, after you remind him of several stories I must send to you by email, of my exploits.
And he’ll no doubt inform you that, “Oh yeah, that guy!? You know he still owes me –“

On second thought, don’t tell him you’ve heard from me. And don’t tell him I’m in Texas.

So you’ll just have to trust me. I was Pogue of the Hill. King of Asp. The Sultan of South Street. The Earl of East 48th. Ruler of the known universe.
And if we had youtube and hand held video cameras readily available back then, I’m sure mah posse and I would have caused an equal amount of controversy. But instead, you’ll just have to rely on the sanskrit etched into the rocks behind Pinks bar off Boyd St.

Cheers.
 
Written By: PogueMahone
URL: http://
No, I would call that a big thing, they should have protected her and arrested anyone that assaulted her.
I saw that and knew one of the guys there (Charles Martin whom I worked with at Sun Microsystems back in the day). The police did nothing to protect her and her friends barely got her out of there. All the while others were shouting "kill her, kill her".

But of course, this was at the Democratic convention and being ruler elect (according to his flack and possible new replacement for senate), all resistance must be crushed.
 
Written By: capt joe
URL: http://
Mrs. Gipper had "Lord of the Flies" flashbacks watching this.

D-bag or no, that crowd was freaking scary.
 
Written By: Ronnie Gipper
URL: http://www.socalconservative.blogspot.com
"I don’t know where exactly the idea that this is some kind of First Amendment policy statement about the Obama administration...."
You’re right. Obama had nothing to do with this. However, the crowd’s hostility towards this non-believer seems consistent with the general attitude towrds dissent amongst the messiah’s followers. In addition to the Stanley Kurtz incident on Chicago radio, there was the Missouri Attorney General using a false advertising consumer statute to threaten the group running ads critical of the one and then there was that lovely bureaucrat/Obama donor in Ohio that ordered the search of Joe the Plumber’s records because he had the temerity to ask Barry a question about taxes while he was traipsing through Joe’s front yard. I guess turnabout is fair play and all. Just off the top of my head, here is one of literally hundreds of examples (and one of the more absurd) where liberals blamed George Bush for something he had absolutely nothing to do with. I don’t have the stomach or time to look for more, but just peruse the first 20 comments on this thread at crooksandliars and you will see 5-10 enlightened lefties blaming Bush/Cheney/Hilter Co. for the Univ. of Florida PD’s tasering of the obnoxious student at the Kerrey event.
 
Written By: jt007
URL: http://
So they have no preemptive role at all?

Castle Rock, Colo. v. Gonzales, Mahone?

Bryan is right, the police don’t have an obligation to protect any Joe Citizen. Besides which, I don’t agree with you for one second that their primary motivation was that of protecting the guy. In the context of the brief video, they appear to have little to no concept of that man’s rights.

But that’s hardly new.
 
Written By: Wulf
URL: http://atlasblogged.com
So they have no preemptive role at all? They’re supposed to stand idly by while the sh!t hits the fan? And only when the sh!t hits the fan, they are to react?

I don’t think so, man.
If I overstated the case, it was only at the margins. The police are not liable for a failure to protect you. You can call them, and say you need help NOW, and if they show up two hours later, after you’re hacked up, that’s on you. If they fail to provide adequate assistance, that’s on you. (Another great reason to be armed.)

The police are not generally tasked with stopping crimes that they think might happen soon, with the exception of conspiracy charges. They aren’t allowed to predict the future.

That’s my understanding of the actual legal status of the police, anyway. If you have a different argument, I’m open to hearing it.

The police could have made a show of force. They could have called backup. But the "fighting words" doctrine (which I think sucks) is much narrower than wearing a t-shirt of an opposing political party. That’s the kind of thing everyone just has to tolerate.

He could have been wearing a giant swastika in a Jewish neighborhood, it doesn’t matter. The police protect those jerks the same way they protect the execrable Westboro Baptist Church when they protest at military funerals, stomp on the American flag and call all soldiers "f*gs".

Consider the precedent you set if any political minority (and hell, McCain-Palin supporters weren’t that much of a minority) is "offensive" to people on the street and therefore liable to be arrested.

"Hey officer, you can bring me in for assault, but he incited me to violence! I can’t stand those Black Panthers!"
This isn’t about protecting first amendments rights, this is about protecting the stupid.
The stupid have the same rights as the brilliant. And I don’t think the police, or shouting mobs, should get to be the arbiters of who’s too stupid to have rights. It’s a pretty serious matter, even if the guy was an idiot or a jerk or both.
 
Written By: Bryan Pick
URL: http://www.qando.net
I saw that and knew one of the guys there (Charles Martin whom I worked with at Sun Microsystems back in the day). The police did nothing to protect her and her friends barely got her out of there. All the while others were shouting "kill her, kill her".
"tollerance" my left ass-cheek.

It’s amazing (not) that we must tolerate the idiocy and hate that comes out of the mouths of the left, and yet they can be videotaped, infront of cops, doing this sort of thing and nothing happens...

The instant there’s more people in the opposing group than is in mine, and they get "excited", I start prepping my "I was in fear for my life, officer" speech...
 
Written By: Scott Jacobs
URL: http://
The guy was too nice and compliant. The left have guidepoints on how to act under such circumstances. He should have kept falling and shouting "Don’t taze me bro".
 
Written By: jpm100
URL: http://
Castle Rock, Colo. v. Gonzales, Mahone?

Bryan is right, the police don’t have an obligation to protect any Joe Citizen.


Interesting case. And I’m not arguing as a whole that the police are necessarily responsible if they should fail to prevent a crime. However, in all practicality, if the police are present - and we wouldn’t want to overlook the fact that their very presence on the street is by nature preemptive - they do have an obligation to keep the peace. This is just a real world application of municipal law enforcement.
As with my college football scenario, any situation where crowds, or mobs if you prefer, run with high emotions (and usually booze, as well), the cops are there to not only arrest those who commit crimes, but also they are there to act as a preventative.
Unfortunately, sometimes these measures ignore a citizen’s rights.

If this individual feels that his rights were violated, he has every right to pursue legal action. Maybe his rights were violated, I don’t know. There’s just not enough in the video to make that determination. One can only speculate.

Seems clear to me from the dialogue that the police told him to "walk away". Anyone who has ever had experience in those types of situations knows that when the cops tell you to leave, you better leave or they will arrest you.
You can argue all day long whether it’s right or not, but it’s just a fact of life.


This video reeks of suspicion. Let’s examine it a bit more, shall we?

The video starts off with the heading, "Man is arrested for wearing a McCain/Palin shirt at post election victory celebration in Philidelphia [sic]"

Judging solely from the video, we don’t know this to be true.

Then at 0:19 we get these pop up windows. One that reads "Obama the REAL Anti-Christ NO LIE! Christians that know their bible must listen!" The other reads, "Witch doctors in Peru BLESS Obama with blood sacrifices"

Really!?


Hey, if this is the video that Dale Franks and others want to prop up to support some kind of mythology that Obama thugs along with the police want to control dissent, then have at it.

I enjoy a good laugh.

Cheers.
 
Written By: PogueMahone
URL: http://
This isn’t about protecting first amendments rights, this is about protecting the stupid.
So, who get’s to decide who’s being stupid?

Oh, that’s right, those in charge...

So, line up for your happy pills, it’s for your own good.
 
Written By: Keith_Indy
URL: http://asecondhandconjecture.com

 
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