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I just don’t get the left’s argument
Posted by: McQ on Sunday, December 28, 2008

Ezra Klein quotes the New York Times:
This is the paragraph that I can't get out of my head:
Hamas had in recent weeks let it be known that it doubted Israel would engage in a major military undertaking because of its coming elections. But in some ways the elections have made it impossible for officials like Mr. Barak not to react, because the public has grown anxious and angry over the rocket fire, which while causing no recent deaths and few injuries is deeply disturbing for those living near Gaza.
No deaths and few injuries. "Deeply disturbing." Hamas lacks the technology to aim its rockets. They're taking potshots. In response, the Israeli government launched air strikes that have now killed more than 280 Palestinians, injured hundreds beyond that, and further radicalized thousands in the Occupied Territories and millions in the region. The response will not come today, of course. It will come in months, or even in years, when an angry orphan detonates a belt filled with shrapnel, killing himself and 25 Israelis. At which point the Israelis will launch air strikes killing another 70 Palestinians, radicalizing thousands more, leading to more bombings, and so the cycle continues.
Of course Klein ignores what our own Huxley points out in the comment section here and illustrates Huxley's point perfectly. As long as Hamas has a "governing" role within the Palestinian community their own charter tells you all you need to know:
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."
Israel could sit like a bump on a log and never do anything and still suffer attacks because that is the Hamas mission in life. It is committed to Israel's destruction. Klein and the NYT just can't seem to get their head around that simple fact.

And it is stunning to me that somehow launching dumb missles into someone's country is simply not grounds for defending one's country, because, you know, no one's been killed and there have only been a few injuries. Well, maybe "not grounds" isn't the proper way to express Klein's objection. It is "disproportional" - to much of a reaction to an apparently minor problem by his estimation.

Of course the fact that Hamas is committed to the destruction of Israel and certainly weren't lobbing those missiles into Israel as an act of harassment, but as an earnest attempt to kill Israelis, isn't factored into the condemnation. Somehow, because Hamas has lousy killing machines, Israel must be constrained in their destruction of them and their capability until, I guess, they show marked improvement in killing Israelis. Then, perhaps, Klein and other would find Israel's reaction "proportional".

When an enemy attacks you, and that enemy has publicly declared its commitment to your destruction, you use that enemy's foolish attack to obliterate them if possible. Some may call strikes which take out about 80% of the enemy disproportionate. I call them not only proportionate, but badly needed for quite some time. Hamas needs to go - either voluntarily or in a box - now. Israel must do what is necessary to make that a reality. Until Hamas is gone there will be no meaningful movement toward peace.
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Previous Comments to this Post 

You are talking about the NY TIMES!!!!

What did you expect? Common sense? Support for Israel? Them NOT taking the terrorists side??

The only thing lower than the level that the NY TIMES will stoop is their next quarter’s subscription numbers.

Written By: retired military
URL: http://
Whoa dude, watch how you jerk that knee! I think you meant to be enraged at the American Prospect.
Written By: TomD
URL: http://
Hundreds of Gazans have been killed by their own missiles - mis-aimed, misfires, blow themselves up building them, etc.

The majority of children in Sderot are suffering from PTSD.

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas told Hamas to cut it out. So now the Palestinians are against Hamas. He still won’t get it.

Egyptian security opens fire on Pals breaching the Egyptian border fence.
So now the Egyptians are taking precisely the same actions Ezra says are reprehensible. He still won’t get it.

I want to tell him; I’ll walk by your house every day and take a potshot at it. If I miss, we’re all good, right? Because you don’t want to start a "cycle of violence" between the two of us, by returning fire, right? So I’ll just see you tomorrow? Good times?

I want to say to progressives everywhere: S’ok you don’t support Zionism, but don’t support Hamas and Hezbollah by accident as a result. If you don’t want to read their charters for an obvious clue, here’s one right in your face: one of ’em has an AK-47 on their flag. Right on their goddamn flag.
Written By: Undertoad
One day Hamas will amend it’s mission to include the destruction of all free countries, including the US. Maybe at that point we will be forced to make the right decision.
Written By: A.D.
The same dumb bunnies who back this rag with their support and by buying it are the same people who support Israel.

Now, if a "newspaper" (which the NYT has long not been) backed, for instance, Proposition 8 in California, would gays read it? Of course not. And if a "newspaper" argued - even in this day and age - for the return of segregation, would blacks read it? I think not.

Yet liberals who claim to support Israel, as well as the Jews (most of whom are, like my Jewish relations, disgustingly liberal) continue to support this anti-Semitic garbage.

If they stopped buying this trash, the Times would be finished. Wait...let me correct that.

The Times is finished. It’s days are numbered. Whether it is tomorrow, or in 2009, or 2010, or thereabouts, the NY Times that we know of will close its doors because it is an obsolete dinosaur.

And I, for one, will throw a celebration when it does go belly up. The same I had a "Good riddance to William Kunstler" Party when that sc*mbag croaked.
Written By: James Marsden
URL: http://
zjyUkP xsbiripovzha, [url=]upcvkxrnkyei[/url], [link=]bjlsdingkiyp[/link],
Written By: xuodbyfhbx

Unfortunately they will get govt bailout money as the US "can’t afford" for them to fail.
Written By: retired military
URL: http://
"Hamas lacks the technology to aim its rockets..... In response, the Israeli government launched air strikes...."

And this is somehow Israel’s bad. Excuse me, if you shoot at the other guys civilians I think it is only fair he destroy your military. If I shot a .22 at a cop missing because I can’t aim and he uses his big guns and shoots me in my big hollow noggin is it his fault? Even if I miss I fired a deadly weapon. Just because their government is a fraud doesn’t mean they can’t be held accountable.

What kind of idiots are these guys? Israel has a modern army of great size. Even if they have old Cold War weaponry it ended almost 20 years ago. You don’t stand a chance. It is irresponsible to your people to fight and break the peace. The problem is nobody in the terror organization/government in Gaza care about the consequences. All they care about is killing the Israeli’s so they can "get back Palestine" that they’ve been taught that the Israeli’s murdered people to acquire.

To recap, Hamas is the plucky terrorist guerrilla warfare hiding coward who starts wars. Israel is the big bad evil expansionist warmonger that ends wars.
Written By: Crevek

You obviously dont read the NY Times. Hamas is the revolutionary heroes struggling against the mighty oppressor. They fight with the only means at their disposal while being overwhelmed by modern weaponary. Their courage is to be commended since they are the victims in all of this.

Excuse me while I go barf.

Written By: retired military
URL: http://
The Palestinians elected Hamas to run Gaza. This crisis has been building ever since. The Israelis have given the residents of the West Bank and Gaza every opportunity to establish a homeland. Israel dismantled their settlements. The IDF respected the six month cease fire. Hamas did not. Rockets have rained down on Israeli towns near the Gaza Strip. Hamas still holds a kidnapped Israeli soldier.

When Germany attacked Poland, the world erupted in war. When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, we put our nation on a war footing, put 8.3 million men under arms and demonstrated a new equation to the Japanese, e = mC2.

Why is Israel treated differently?
Written By: Arch
URL: http://
I wish some insurgent group would rain "dumb" rockets down on Berkeley or the Upper West Side from some of the lower class areas nearby.

Then we’d see what’s what from these people.

Let the next terror attack on US soil concentrate on a mostly blue area, maybe I’ll use a variation of this argument to argue against retaliation.
Written By: shark
URL: http://
2mZkJj pujqqfyomkzf, [url=]yvmylequgvao[/url], [link=]sgtfoypzfkjd[/link],
Written By: hwqyks
I just don’t get the left’s argument
If you DID get it, I’d have serious doubts about you.
Israel could sit like a bump on a log and never do anything and still suffer attacks because that is the Hamas mission in life. It is committed to Israel’s destruction. Klein and the NYT just can’t seem to get their head around that simple fact.
Think now; Isn’t that pretty much the same deal we got from them with AlQuieda? They’re not about our detsruction, they’s simply reacting to or being on their turf, and other such nonsense arguments?

I’m to the point now where I say that the only way that situation is going to come to peace is if the war gets fought to a conclusion. As I keep saying, peace is a product of havng won the war waged against you. That means not laying down arms until the job’s done. I say let Israel level Gaza. Peace will come when Israel has the parking stripes painted on the place. They’ve had the justification for 20 years at least to do exactly that.
Written By: Bithead
Thanks for the hat tip, McQ!

It seems to me that members of the left compartmentalize this awareness—assuming they are aware that Hamas et al. uncompromising desire to obliterate Israel. When I bring up the Hamas Charter in discussions with liberal/left friends, it registers for a moment then they eventually they go back to blaming Israel and the United States.

I think it’s just too scary for them to contemplate that this is not two civilized nations involved in a nasty dispute, but something monstrous and evil that can’t be resolved with smiles, talk, and money.

No, far easier to retreat to what is safe and comfortable: complaining about Israel and the United States.
Written By: huxley
URL: http://
Ezra Klein has been drinking the Kool-aid for so long that he wouldn’t recognize the truth if drowned in it.

Written By: Grimshaw
URL: http://
Well, they’re protesting outside the Israeli Embassy in London. I guess England was wrong to retaliate for the Reich’s V-2 attacks; they also lacked guidance afterall.
Written By: Is
URL: http://
Maybe the left expects Israel to just use umbrellas or something.

"Look dear, it’s raining rockets again. Take your umbrella!"

Written By: shark
URL: http://
To paraphrase Richard Nixon, "Soon, we won’t have the New York Times to kick around anymore."

In the publishing business, advertisers are an order of magnitude more important than subscribers. Last quarter, the NYT lost 20% of their ad revenue. I would bet that the ads I’m reading the the WSJ are from customers that quit the Times at the urging of Rupert Murdoch. In July 2007, a share of NYT cost $24. Pity the fool who bought that. The last time I looked, NYT was creeping back above $6. Soon, even the Ochs & Sulsberger families won’t be able to keep their presses running.

I can hardly wait.
Written By: Arch
URL: http://
no one’s been killed and there have only been a few injuries.

It’s not even that. It’s no one’s been killed recently. There were two Israelis killed by Kassams back in February. Apparently, Jewish deaths have a very short ’expiration’ date in Klein’s eyes.
Written By: Achillea
URL: http://
Did Klein just land on this planet?
Written By: looker
URL: http://
Now I get it.....the real subtext here is how dare those jooos do this NOW, and potentially spoil Lightworker’s coronation?

Written By: shark
URL: http://
This post has been linked for the HOT5 Daily 12/30/2008, at The Unreligious Right
Written By: UNRR

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