There is already a conflicting report from Reuters?? that says the head Iraqi minister in charge of border patrol says that he contacted all his agents and none of them could corraborate the story in the NYT.
Drudge has the links to all the headlines about it.
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Written By:
navtechie
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There’s apparently some question as to the accuracy of this NYT story:BAGHDAD (Reuters) - The head of Iraq’s border guards denied police reports on Wednesday that a tanker truck stuffed with thousands of forged ballot papers had been seized crossing into Iraq from Iran before Thursday’s elections.
"This is all a lie," said Lieutenant General Ahmed al-Khafaji, the chief of the U.S.-trained force which has responsibility for all Iraq’s borders.
"I heard this yesterday and I checked all the border crossings right away. The borders are all closed anyway," he told Reuters.
Iraq’s frontiers are closed for the period of the election.
"I contacted all the border crossing points and there was no report of any such incident," Khafaji said.
Interior Minister Bayan Jabor also denied the reports, which the New York Times ran prominently, quoting a single unnamed Interior Ministry source, and said it was an attempt to discredit the election process. I don’t know which is more believable: that the Iranians would actively try to influence the Iraqi elections with forged ballots, or that the Times would so monumentally screw up a story by reporting rumors as fact. Hmmm ... it’s a toss-up. |
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Written By:
MichaelW
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Reuters vs. the NYT. The pot and the kettle. I will go with both of them on this story. Facts yet to come out will show that both are correct in what they reported. I don’t think much of the Times, but even I cannot believe that their standards have slipped so much that they would report such a story with only one source and no confirmation. |
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Written By:
notherbob2
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Sure about that?
No idea who to believe yet on this one. It’s all so.. hard to decide on who’s more trustworthy. |
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Written By:
Dave
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Let’s see - the Iranians effectively run the Iraqi security forces. Those same forces are now denying that Iran is trying to influence the Iranian elections. Wonder why?
C’mon people - wake up. |
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Written By:
mkultra
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It gets worse. The general cited in the Reuters article is actually the Deputy Interior Minister. The Interior Ministry, of course, is torturing Sunni detainees and others who oppose the takeover of the government by radical Shia miltias and the backers in Tehran. The Interior Ministry, which some leaders of Saddam’s formerly dominant Sunni Arab minority accuse of sanctioning reprisals by Shi’ite death squads, flatly denied overseeing torture and said protecting human rights was a priority.
Deputy Interior Minister Ahmed Ali al-Khafaji denied any policy to torture or kill detainees: "It is all false reports," he said. "We do not want to repeat history. We the Iraqi people have been tortured and abused and do not want to go back to it."
Six months ago, New York-based Human Rights Watch documented what it called "routine and commonplace" abuse by Iraqi forces.
A Kurdish member told the National Assembly on Sunday he had been beaten and subjected to sectarian insults in police custody two weeks ago. Mohammed Hamed Qader demanded an investigation.
The United States and Britain, the new government’s main backers, have voiced concern. Both have been embarrassed by killings and abuse of Iraqis by their own forces after they had justified invasion partly on the grounds of Saddam’s repression. So the guy telling us that Iran is not sending over forged ballots is the same guy who denies that the interior ministry is torturing anyone. No idea who to believe yet on this one. It’s all so.. hard to decide on who’s more trustworthy. No idea? No idea?
What is utterly fascinating is that in reviewing winger blogs, it becomes clear that most wingers disbelieve the NYT story because the NYT is "biased." But they are fully willing to believe an effective Iranian agent for the proposition that Iran is not trying to influence the outcome of the elections.
There is a word for those kind of people - Idiots.
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Written By:
mkultra
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Y’know, mk, you should really try on a new persona, ’cuz "Condescending Asshole" is getting a little boring and tiresome. Watching you erect strawmen and (sort of) knock them down doesn’t exactly make for compelling reading. If you think the hosts and commenters around here are such a waste of your precious fucking time and oh-so-superior intellect, then have a nice cup of STFU and get lost. |
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Written By:
MichaelW
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Y’know, mk, you should really try on a new persona, ’cuz "Condescending Asshole" is getting a little boring and tiresome. Watching you erect strawmen and (sort of) knock them down doesn’t exactly make for compelling reading. If you think the hosts and commenters around here are such a waste of your precious fucking time and oh-so-superior intellect, then have a nice cup of STFU and get lost. Nice analytical comeback. This from a guy who uncritcally quotes a mouthpiece for the Iranian government and suggests out loud that he might have some credibility. Because, after all, we all know he was speaking the truth when he said the interior ministry wasn’t torturing anyone.
You going to start denying the holocaust now too?
Tell you what - why don’t you spend a little more time worrying about the credbility of who you quote in your posts and little less time worrying about me. Mkay? |
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Written By:
mkultra
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MK - both the NYT and Reuters have credibility issues when it comes to, well, ANYTHING about the US and Iraq.
So since they’re contradicting each other, I’m not sure who to believe.
Btw, is that NYT an article originating with them, or was it an AP-rewrite? |
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Written By:
Dave
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Btw, is that NYT an article originating with them, or was it an AP-rewrite Their article - Dexter Filkins.
For what’s it worth, CNN is now reporting the same as the NYT - CNN is quoting US military sources. |
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Written By:
mkultra
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Nice analytical comeback. This from a guy who uncritcally quotes a mouthpiece for the Iranian government and suggests out loud that he might have some credibility. Because, after all, we all know he was speaking the truth when he said the interior ministry wasn’t torturing anyone. Way to go, genius, you caught me "uncritically" posting the comments of one (alleged) Interior Ministry official contradicting those of another Interior Ministry official. And then I had the audacity to point out that I don’t know who to believe. Once again, you set up a strawman and can’t even knock it down. Pathetic. "Nice analytical comeback" my ass; you run and hide like the pathetic excuse of person you truly are every time you get confronted with things like "facts" and "quotes" and "links."You going to start denying the holocaust now too? Are you kidding me? Are you actually calling me some sort of Nazi, you fucking coward? I’ll give you my goddamned address, mk ... I dare you to say something like that to my face.Tell you what - why don’t you spend a little more time worrying about the credbility of who you quote in your posts and little less time worrying about me. Mkay? Why don’t you try working on your reading comprehension skills and then I’ll start taking advice from you. |
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Written By:
MichaelW
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Michael, MK, settle down before I have to send you to your rooms. When McQ comes home, you’re all in for spankings! |
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Written By:
Wacky Hermit
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Michael:
Lets establish a few facts, you tell me if they are wrong:
1) US forces uncovered obivous evidence of torture by interior ministry forces
2) Human rights groups have documented evidence of such torture
3) Ahmed al-Khafaji - deputy interior minister - denied there was any torture
4) The same minister denied Iran was trying to influence the election
5) Shiite militas have infiltrated Iraqi security forces
6) The same militias are backed by Iran
7) The President of Iran said the Holocaust was a myth
Now, again, tell me which of these assertions is not true.
You claim you do not know who to believe. Given the above, why would you believe al-Khafaji? Especially when he is carrying water for a regime that denies the holocaust happened?
As for calling me a coward, go ahead. I’m a big boy. I can take it. The question I have for you is this: Why would you give any credibility to someone who denies the Iraqi government is torturting its own citizens when both our government and human rights groups say the opposite. I know you love Bush. But this is a great example of where your love for Bush has so misled you that it has led to you to indirectly support the Iranian regime.
Why is this so hard for you to understand?
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Written By:
mkultra
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Are you kidding me? Are you actually calling me some sort of Nazi, you fucking coward? I’ll give you my goddamned address, mk ... I dare you to say something like that to my face.
Oooh, oooh
Can we all come? I’d like to see that.
And if McQ doesn’t mind;
I’ll run the book...
Any suggestions on the odds? |
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Written By:
PogueMahone
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I don’t see how extra ballots would help if they are checking names of people at the polls based on ration cards, etc. And if you simply dumped them into the system, wouldn’t they show up if suddenly Iraq’s population soared by 2 million?
Let’s wait until we get an attribution with a name...remember all the WMD false call stories...same thing applies here. One rumor heard by some guy who calls the NYT does not a story make. |
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Written By:
Harun
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MK:
Here’s a little logic lesson for you. According to you, members of the Interior Ministry are not to be believed because they are the mouthpiece of Iran. So, if one Interior Ministry official claims forged ballots were smuggled into Iraq by Iran,Less than two days before nationwide elections, the Iraqi border police seized a tanker on Tuesday that had just crossed from Iran filled with thousands of forged ballots, an official at the Interior Ministry said. and another Interior Ministry official* claims they weren’t,"This is all a lie," said Lieutenant General Ahmed al-Khafaji, the chief of the U.S.-trained force which has responsibility for all Iraq’s borders. how do you know who to believe? By your own premise—that the Interior Ministry is not to be believed—you’re in a bit of a conundrum.
Furthermore, what in the hell have any of your "facts" got to do with anything I’ve written? Topic maintenance, MK. You should really learn something about it.
More importantly, you owe me an apology for insinuating I’m a holocaust-denier. In the alternative, you can take me up on my offer and prove just how a big of a boy you are. Pogue can take book, and McQ can ref. Drinks will be on me. Of course if you read directions with the same comprehension you read everything else, I’m sure that you’ll end up in Antarctica selling wolf tickets.
*This assumes that Ahmed al-Khafaji is both the Lieutenant General quoted by Reuters, and Deputy Interior Minister, Ahmed Ali al-Khafaji, cited by MK. I don’t know if that’s true or not, and I don’t really care. |
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Written By:
MichaelW
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...Drinks will be on me.
Duuuude,
You have no idea what you’re getting into.
:) ... :p ... :} ... zzzzzz |
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Written By:
PogueMahone
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Hey, I’m Irish too, Pogue. I have some clue;) |
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Written By:
MichaelW
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Well, Sláinte MichaelW. I guess you do know what you’re getting into.
Cheers.
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Written By:
PogueMahone
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