The difference is now, instead of dealing with the settlers, the IDF has free reign to operate.
Oh yes, and now instead of the whole "occupation/rebellion" bullspit, Israel is now justiafiably responding to an act of war.
Time for operation "wipe Palestine off the map" |
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Written By:
shark
URL:
http://
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Ummm, yeah, if that was indeed the intent of the giveaway ... but we both know it wasn’t.
Heh ... as an aside, I knew you’d be the first one up, shark. In fact I almost ended the post with "and now a word from shark". ;) |
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Written By:
McQ
URL:
http://www.qando.net/blog
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McQ,
Someone at Ed Morrisey’s place pointed us to this very depressing assessment of Israel’s strategies - or lack thereof. Unfortunately, from where I sit, it is pretty spot on in that Israel patently refuses to take whatever steps are necessary to end the standoff with the Palis.
Expect the crisis to continue indefinitely well beyond the scope of the current actions. |
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Written By:
D
URL:
http://
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D, I’m sorry but that suggestions are simply preposterous...Israel was in no way prepared nor would it have been allowed to absorb the Territories and dispossess the Palestinians.
The Israelis are in the position of the French who used to have a say, "There are two ways of dealing with the Germans, to kill them all or to learn to live with them and to kill them all is impossible."
Israel is going to have to learn to live with the Palestinians and vice versa. I would also disagree with McQ. I believe the withdrawal from Gaza was a good idea. Gaza was NEVER going to be a part of Eretz Ysrael and it was increasingly expensive to maintain the settlements there. It allowed the Israelis to let the Palestinians have the rope necessary to hang themselves or to save themselves. But no longer were they "Occupied". |
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Written By:
Joe
URL:
http://
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Joe,The Israelis are in the position of the French who used to have a say, "There are two ways of dealing with the Germans, to kill them all or to learn to live with them and to kill them all is impossible." The difference here is that France was always far weaker than Germany, even with the Maginot Line. Israel, OTOH, has always held the capacity to end the Palestinian problem but has refrained from doing so; checked by world opinion. Consequently, the only choice they feel viable is to enable the current crisis to continue indefinitely with the occasional low-boil flareups now occurring. Hence, giving up Gaza and handing Hamas a Qassam launch pad closer to Israeli cities was S-T-O-O-P-I-D, the outcome of which was known to everyone but conveniently ignored.
I, for one, can have no sympathy for a country that knowingly endangers its citizens in such a feckless manner. |
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Written By:
D
URL:
http://
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joe, the french used to say that before they had nukes. recall the ’palestinian’ gov’t was freely elected, so in every way are the citizens responsible for their chosen gov’t.
curiously, i clearly recall the events in ’67; do not the palis? it seems not. |
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Written By:
window licker
URL:
http://
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so in every way are the citizens responsible for their chosen gov’t. Yes as were the voters of Germany in 1945 but by-and-large we didn’t dispossess THEM either. Sorry I’m not into some Biblical "You elected THEM and now you must pay" sort of argument.
Throwing the Palestinians "out" is only going to happen/work in the aftermath of some World War-like event. It’s what got the Volk Deutsche out of Poland and Czechoslovakia and that happened because the USSR allowed it.
So for the Palestinians to be "re-settled" is going to require, it seems, a long, violent war and the acquiescence of the United States or some other global hegemon. I’m praying we can avoid that.
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Written By:
Joe
URL:
http://
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Heh ... as an aside, I knew you’d be the first one up, shark. In fact I almost ended the post with "and now a word from shark". ;) Sadly predictable I am :) |
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Written By:
shark
URL:
http://
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biblical? grace is biblical; and yes, along with justice. ...and israel getting their butt kicked...and then restored...
if i were to make a ’biblical’ argument, it would arbitrary & defenseless.
i agree that the palis should be resettled. how ’bout into the lands from whence they came? any takers from lebanon, syria, egypt, et. al.? not the last time i checked, they’re [palis] persona non-grata |
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Written By:
window licker
URL:
http://
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i agree that the palis should be resettled. how ’bout into the lands from whence they came? Do you also mean Dir Yassin? Joppa and other ISRAELI towns? The "Pali’s" lived there you blithering idiot! It’s not like the Palestinians were SHIPPED INTO THE OCCUPIED TERRITORIES IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE 1948 WAR. You can make the argument that they may not have considered themselves "Palestinians" but they are indigenous to the region.
And I can NOT believe I am standing up the Palestinians, being a fairly ardent Zionist, but there comes a point where ANY libel or lunacy is not acceptable. |
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Written By:
Joe
URL:
http://
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The difference here is that France was always far weaker than Germany, even with the Maginot Line. It wasn’t until the 1940 invasion of France was essentially over that the Germans found out that the French Char B tank could withstand German AT guns. And the French had about as many Char B tanks as the Germans had all types combined, including the recently aquired Czech models and the small Panzer Mk I an Mk II two man tanks which had been intended as training machines.
Generally speaking, having more and better armour is not considered to render you "weaker". The Maginot Line was a significant advantage to agument the French tanks.
The German advantage was in tactics, organization, agressiveness, communications, etc. |
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Written By:
Don
URL:
http://
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The difference is now, instead of dealing with the settlers, the IDF has free reign to operate.
Oh yes, and now instead of the whole "occupation/rebellion" bullspit, Israel is now justiafiably responding to an act of war.
Time for operation "wipe Palestine off the map" I think shark is spot-on. Israel has to consider political as well as military issues. The US left and old Europe has a quaint concept of the threat the West and Israel face. Israel needs support from the US. It has to do things we all know are stupid in order to continue receiving support. |
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Written By:
Don
URL:
http://
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Likud is the principle proponent of the "one state" solution in Israel, and they have been relegated to a third party by the voters. Whatever we may personally think of the legitimacy of Egypt and Jordan "gifting" the Palestinians with territory they lost to Israel in war, it has proven to be a smashing political success. The whole world now views these territories as "Palestine," including a majority of Israelis. And of course it accomplished it’s primary goal of keeping millions of Palestinians from becoming Egyptians and Jordanians.
With Israel out of the territories and a permanent border designated (see "the fence") by 2008, it will be completely up to the Palestinians as to whether the territories become Palestine proper or another iteration of the killing fields. Moreover, Israel is no longer at the mercy of Palestinian obstruction. By withdrawing from the territories, Israel can now determine it’s future with or without Palestinian partners, and the Palestinians know this; Israel is giving the Palistinians a demonstration of their new reality as we speak. Although Hamas is beside itself with rage and frustration, they’re still helpless, and now a long-term settled peace is just a matter of waiting for Hamas to proceed through the anger and denial stages of grief to the level of acceptance. The only open question is whether Israel will be required to exterminate them in the meantime.
yours/
peter. |
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Written By:
Peter Jackson
URL:
http://www.liberalcapitalist.com
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The difference is now, instead of dealing with the settlers, the IDF has free reign to operate.
Oh yes, and now instead of the whole "occupation/rebellion" bullspit, Israel is now justiafiably responding to an act of war.
Time for operation "wipe Palestine off the map" I think shark is spot-on. Israel has to consider political as well as military issues. The US left and old Europe has a quaint concept of the threat the West and Israel face. Israel needs support from the US. It has to do things we all know are stupid in order to continue receiving support. |
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Written By:
Don
URL:
http://
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biblical? grace is biblical; and yes, along with justice. ...and israel getting their butt kicked...and then restored...
if i were to make a ’biblical’ argument, it would arbitrary & defenseless.
i agree that the palis should be resettled. how ’bout into the lands from whence they came? any takers from lebanon, syria, egypt, et. al.? not the last time i checked, they’re [palis] persona non-grata |
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Written By:
window licker
URL:
http://
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{apologies for prev redundant post, bit by frikkin mindless ’postdata’ madness}
back to joe...
when i write ’palis’, i mean those of a non-israeli tribes, to include nomadic arabs/semites.
correct, they weren’t shipped there, they emmigrated there & started spawning like...well, muslims.
as opposed to the jews.
who were given (mandated!) this land which is roughly in the geographical shape of israel. i think we both know this, or have a good sharing of this knowledge (insert appropriate venn diagram here).
to find that you become unspooled and relegate my comments to lunacy & libel shows to me you are interested more in blame than trying to crack this nut.
both sides can make good use of you. |
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Written By:
window licker
URL:
http://
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correct, they weren’t shipped there, they emmigrated there & started spawning like...well, muslims. or other groups introduced to modern medicine, BUT lacking a fully developed industrial economy.as opposed to the jews.
who were given (mandated!) this land which is roughly in the geographical shape of israel. Yes and the OTHER state was "Palestine" and for the ARABS. You conveniently forget this, just as a number of Arabs conveniently forget about the other state in the "Two State" Solution.
1947 Partition Plan called for two states, it didn’t say, "Here’s Israel and everyone else you’re Jordanian/Egyptian/Syrian/Lebanese." Getting BOTH sides, simultaneously to remember and act on this has been a "tedious" process. It seems that the "Troubles" will remain with a while longer... |
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Written By:
Joe
URL:
http://
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ok, someone here write read slow & explain to me why the PA, et. al, have rejected all(?) land deals offered up in the last few decades - most notably the 97% of yasser arafats demands (brokered by clinton, right?). then tell me how he got a nobel peace prize, or at least the defence given for the award.
can a people really have so much stubbornness in their history? |
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Written By:
window licker
URL:
http://
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can a people really have so much stubbornness in their history? Uh window lcker, you don’t read teh Old Testament much do you? I believe the the folks you are defending rank right up their in stubbornness. You know the guys the "pali’s" are supposed to be dispossessed by?
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Written By:
Joe
URL:
http://
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In the 1920’s Arabs outnumbered jews more than 4-1 in what is now Israel.
By the 30’s it was 2-1 Arabs over jews.
I’m not saying who is right, but get your numbers right.
It seems to me Arabs were here in large numbers before "god" gave it away.
Go here to see what I mean:
http://middleeastreference.org.uk/Chronology.html |
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Written By:
Wes
URL:
http://
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I hope you’re right on this one, Peter. It seems like extermination or at least a widening of the conflict is happening, though. Hezbollah grabbed another couple of IDF soldiers and the IDF retaliated by hitting Beirut. I don’t know where it will all end up. I can only hope that however things end, Israel winds up safer.
And to Joe : I’m usually right there with ya guy, but on the history of Israel and the old British mandate territory we have to part ways. Jordan was created as the new "Palestine." "Palestinians" and other indigenous, non-Jews were meant to have Jordan as their own state alongside the Jewish state of Israel. The fact that the Hashemite rulers of Jordan chose not to accept those they considered undesirables into their new kingdom is their responsibility, not Israel’s. Or, for that matter, Britain’s.
For further indications of the original partition plans (and the ideas for the formal boundaries of Israel) see the Balfour Declaration and related documents. |
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Written By:
The Poet Omar
URL:
http://
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Funny to see Jews and Muslims killing each other. They’ve doing that for centuries. Even before the Islam, |
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Written By:
Tukuyrikuy
URL:
http://
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joe said:Uh window lcker, you don’t read teh Old Testament much do you? I believe the the folks you are defending rank right up their in stubbornness. You know the guys the "pali’s" are supposed to be dispossessed by? i read it plenty, but it appears my recall is selective.
good catch. hope you read this. |
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Written By:
window licker
URL:
http://
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The other day/week on the news, I noticed that a group of angry Middle Eastern protesters were busy burning an Israeli flag. Conspicuously absent was a burning American flag.
Has anyone noticed any recent coverage with Middle Eastern protests burning an American flag?
If not, would that be significant? |
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Written By:
Keith, Indy
URL:
http://
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