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What’s wrong with this picture? (Udated)
Posted by: Dale Franks on Wednesday, August 15, 2007

Hmm. Take a look at this picture. Look closely.

Now, read the caption that AFP appends with the picture.
An elderly Iraqi woman shows two bullets which she says hit her house following an early coalition forces raid in the predominantly Shiite Baghdad suburb of Sadr City.
Huh. These bullets? These were the ones that hit her house? If so, then those are very...interesting bullets. I'd like to know more about them.

But wait, there's more.
The standard 62-grain M855 5.56 ball ammo used by our military today has a green tip, the M856 tracer has an orange tip, the M995 AP a black tip, and the Mk262 is a hollowpoint with an open tip.
For this to be a military ammo round, it would have to be one of the old M193 ball rounds. Are any of those rounds even in service any more?

The M193 is the standard round for the M16A1, which can't actually fire the M855, because that rifle's barrel rifling can't stabilize the M855 round.

Curiouser and curiouser.

UPDATE: Some have questioned whether these are even 5.56 rounds and are possibly 7.62x39 AK rounds. They are definitely 5.56 rounds. First, the woman's fingers give you a scale, and these are tiny little bullets poking ou the end. Also, the 7.62x39 round has a much less pronounced neck, and more bullet poking out the end. 7.62x39 rounds are quite fat and stubby.

Also, pretty much all the Russian surplus 7.62x39 that's floating around has steel instead of brass casings, and there's a really noticeable color difference between the case and the round, since the case is usually either gray or a sort of OD green color. Even the Chinese and Yugo stuff, which can use brass, have noticeably duller casings, and the Yugo stuff usually has noticeable reloading/heat discoloration at the neck.
 
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Previous Comments to this Post 

Comments
Maybe our boys threw them.
 
Written By: Wulf
URL: http://www.atlasblogged.com
Yeah, I was gonna say... I’m more concerned by bullets hitting a house that haven’t been fired yet, never mind the type...
 
Written By: Scott Jacobs
URL: http://
You mean they might have lied to us!!! I’m shocked, shocked I tell you!!!
 
Written By: Teresa
URL: http://technicalities.mu.nu
I thought about the throwing possibility myself. If the government cannot afford to provide the troops with guns, I think it’s time for a (realy realy) fast redraw!
 
Written By: Jon Herstad
URL: http://idioten.blogspot.com
The surge is doing well, time to get out the atrocity stories.

Between TNR and this, they obviously have the B Team on it though.
 
Written By: jpm100
URL: http://
I’m having a hard time finding a good pic, but are we sure that those aren’t rounds from an AK47?
 
Written By: Scott Jacobs
URL: http://
An even greater travesty ;)
 
Written By: capt joe on the road
URL: http://
In looking at the files in question, (And as I suggested at my place earlier tonight) it appears possible that they have been Photoshopped, or at least touched up.

Ignoring that possibility for the moment, and accepting the idea that nobody in the U.S. (or, more correctly, from the U.S. ) is using this type of ammunition any longer, let’s examine the possibility that some foreign government or entity is using them. Or, selling them.

A few possibilities; Russia, China. Another possibility, U.S. animation stolen, stored from a previous campaign. Say, Iraq, 92.

Or, the photos were as I say electronically altered. Look particularly at the pixels along the line where the fingers intersect with the bullets. Perhaps it’s just the JPG compression, but the edge of the finger seems to take on a different quality where she’s holding the bullets.

 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitsblog.florack.us
I’m having a hard time finding a good pic, but are we sure that those aren’t rounds from an AK47?
Yes, those are obviously not 7.62x39 rounds. I know what AK rounds look like. In fact, I have several hundred sitting around here.
 
Written By: Dale Franks
URL: http://www.qando.net
I’m just wondering...

It’s not like we could put such a lie past the MSM...

I just had to make sure...
 
Written By: Scott Jacobs
URL: http://
Yeah, I hoped someone would notice the cartridge versus bullet problem. I mean good research with all the ammo photos and all, but...
 
Written By: Paul
URL: http://
Let me use this story to make a further point about narratives.
”Over at Blackfive last night, Uncle Jimbo caught al-Okaili attempting to use this narrative once too often as captured on Yahoo!’s photostream:”
Idiot liberals who read this story will say to themselves: “OK, the bullets are staged. However, this Iraqi woman is upset because real bullets hit her house and the fact that a stupid photographer screwed up the photo-shoot shouldn’t blind us to the very real anguish she is suffering because of this senseless attack.”

Fake, but accurate.
 
Written By: &amp
URL: http://
Idiots.
 
Written By: &amp
URL: http://
That may be a British L2A1 5.56mm ball round on the left. They don’t have a green tip, and they are issued in theater. They do however seem to cause more malfunctions in American weapons, but I digress.
 
Written By: J
URL: http://
Agence France-Presse....

Insert cheap shot joke about French Military.
 
Written By: Jay Evans
URL: http://
Like others have said above, the issue isn’t the make/caliber of the rounds...the issue is that our soldiers are THROWING UNSPENT ROUNDS at old ladies houses. The UN needs to be involved in this one.
 
Written By: markm
URL: http://
Could be ammunition for the AK 74. It is a modernized variant of the AK 47, and does shoot a 5.56mm bullet.

I have never seen any of the ammunition, but it is a possibility that AK 74s are present in Iraq.
 
Written By: montana charlie
URL: http://
Call in Arlen Specter, they found the ’magic bullet’ again.
 
Written By: narciso
URL: http://
"Maybe our boys threw them."

That is the first thing I thought, too. Their weapons jammed, obviously, and out of desperation they threw them. Or maybe it is a new, experimental multi-stage round that malfunctioned and the second stage didn’t ignite.

"That may be a British L2A1 5.56mm ball round on the left. They don’t have a green tip, and they are issued in theater. They do however seem to cause more malfunctions in American weapons, but I digress"

Bingo! The corrupt and incompetent Bus*itler regime can’t even supply our persons in uniform with the proper ammunition to commit their war crimes (the necessary funds no doubt going to Halliburton), so they are using unsuitable British ammunition, thus endangering the lives of our heros in uniform. So much for the vaunted wingnut "support the troops" meme. The British, now short of ammunition, are being forced to withdraw.



 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
The standard 62-grain M855 5.56 ball ammo used by our military today has a green tip, the M856 tracer has an orange tip, the M995 AP a black tip, and the Mk262 is a hollowpoint with an open tip.
Hollow points? Aren’t hollow points a no-no?
 
Written By: meagain
URL: http://
What about them being the 4.7mm round the AK74 uses? Yours, TDP, ml, msl, & pfpp
 
Written By: Tom Perkins
URL: http://tomdperkins.blogspot.com/
And the RPK74 uses 5.45.

Yours, TDP, ml, msl, & pfpp
 
Written By: Tom Perkins
URL: http://tomdperkins.blogspot.com/
Saw the following graphic at Small Dead Animals.

Comparison of the 7.62x39(AK47), .223 (NATO M16, C-7) and .308 (7.62 NATO, AR-10)
 
Written By: Scott Jacobs
URL: http://
And after an edit of the text of the caption, it seems yahoo has taken the pic down entirely.
 
Written By: Scott Jacobs
URL: http://
Hollow points? Aren’t hollow points a no-no?

This question interests me. Any takers?
 
Written By: glasnost
URL: http://
Hollow points? Aren’t hollow points a no-no?
This question interests me. Any takers?
As I have read elsewhere, for MILITARY use, Hollow Points are out, but not for law enforcement uses, nor would it be illegal to use hollow points against NON-Signatory powers, to the Hague Conventions. As I have read, admittedly I could be very wrong:
1) Hollow points by the US Army v. Saddam’s Army, Illegal
2) Hollow points v. Iraqi Insurgents or other illegal combatants, not signatory to Hague Conventions, Legal
3) Hollow points v. Glasnost by Local PD, Legal.
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
So it would not make logistical sense for the armed forces to slot precious space for hollow points. It’s not like the guys in the field are going to swap out mags because they are facing insurgents.

I brought it up just to make the point that if they are HP, then they are most likely NOT from US armed forces.
 
Written By: meagain
URL: http://
The 5.56mm "hollowpoints" probably aren’t hollowpoints at all. They’re more likely Sierra MatchKing bullets that are open tipped as a result of the manufacturing process. The cavity is very shallow. The bullets don’t expand like hollowpoints and aren’t subject to the restrictions in the Hague convention.

http://www.thegunzone.com/opentip-ammo.html

http://www.thegunzone.com/hague.html

The mk262 ammo uses Sierra MatchKing open tip bullets.

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ammunition/mk262_080105/
 
Written By: Les Jones
URL: http://www.lesjones.com/
Thanks for the info, joe and les.
 
Written By: glasnost
URL: http://

 
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