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Most now think effort in Iraq will succeed
Posted by: McQ on Friday, February 29, 2008

In fact, it isn't even close. 53% to 39%, a Pew Research Center survey shows. And that's up quite a bit from last February where only 48% thought it would succeed (vs. 47% who thought it would fail).

Is it any wonder the Democrats are mostly avoiding this issue on the campaign trail (and are now beginning to hedge their "immediate withdrawal" talk as well)?

And if you think the Democrats are running from it, how about the news media. If you've ever doubted the school of thought that claims the news is driven by the credo "if it bleeds it leads" Iraq should remove all doubt. Check this out:


Newsbuster's Rich Noyes notes:
Back in December, NBC’s Tim Russert conceded that the media were less interested in covering a successful U.S. mission in Iraq, telling anchor Brian Williams that “with the surge in Iraq and the level of American deaths declining, it is off the front pages.”
As a campaign issue, John McCain is going to have to find a way to put it back on the front pages in a way that favors the fact that he supported it and it is succeeding despite the best efforts of whomever the Democratic nominee ends up being. Given the decline in coverage by the media, though, that might not be as easy as one might imagine.

(HT: Keith_Indy)
 
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Mainstream media’s motto on Iraq:

If it bleeds, it leads.
It it works, we shirk.
 
Written By: Billy Hollis
URL: http://
Since media coverage also declined in February, when deaths went up from January and December, and since media coverage has been much lower than in 2005, when violence levels were the same (and we were using the exact same strategy as now), it seems more likely that the MSM just isn’t covering Iraq, period.

So the MSM is dedicated to the idea that Iraq is no longer an issue of significance, even though the situation is exactly the same as in 2005, the year most people began to realize that the war had failed. 2005 is also similar in that most Democrats were nervous about supporting withdrawal for fear of being attacked as "unserious." But then as now, anyone who is actually serious on national security wants a timetable for withdrawal.

And as Allahpundit points out, the poll numbers on supporting a timetable for withdrawal haven’t changed that much despite the media’s pro-surge coverage. Because it’s not that most Americans want to "win" in Iraq, it’s that they know that staying in Iraq and wasting money and lives for 100 years may not be a great idea.
 
Written By: T.B.
URL: http://
it seems more likely that the MSM just isn’t covering Iraq, period.

So the MSM is dedicated to the idea that Iraq is no longer an issue of significance
No, it certainly is not significant. The Dems decide that the economy is the main issue to push, and the lapdogs follow suit.

 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
No, it certainly is not significant. The Dems decide that the economy is the main issue to push, and the lapdogs follow suit.

If the MSM were the Democrats’ lapdogs, they would not be under-covering the bad news from Iraq.

But don’t worry. If the Democrats continue to push the economy instead of Iraq, they will lose. It’s a throwback to 2002 when they tried to place economic concerns while going along with Bush on Iraq. They lost, and deserved to lose, because Democrats lose when they don’t emphasize national security issues.

I don’t know if the Democratic nominee will try and run away from Iraq, but if he/she does, he/she will lose. If on the other hand it’s a Democrat advocating withdrawal from Iraq vs. McCain advocating 100 years of wasting money and lives, that’s a different story.
 
Written By: T.B.
URL: http://
McCain advocating 100 years of wasting money and lives
Of course, that’s is easily show as not what he said, or meant.
 
Written By: Keith_Indy
URL: http://asecondhandconjecture.com
Results of Iraq: what was to be a fast war with a rebuilt pro-American Iraq greeting us as liberators turned into a five years and counting slog, with Iraq torn by ethnic violence, ethnic cleansing creating communities where stability comes from the fact ethnic groups are kept separated by barriers. The US military is overstretched, the public has (thankfully) soured on military adventurism so it is clear that future Presidents won’t be able at least in the next 20 or so years engage in similar fiascos, and the US is weakened internationally, facing $100 a barrell oil and a dollar declining rapidly in value.

The President’s unpopularity caused him not only to lose his GOP majority, but his entire effort to create an "opportunity society" crashed and burned. He never got to try out his market oriented reforms, and thanks to Iraq, the Democrats are in a position to assure that perhaps those reforms never get tried. Meanwhile, the GOP majority is sacrificed not only in Congress, but in general, as thanks to Iraq, America moves leftward.

Meanwhile, over five years into it, as all the goals and predictions that had been set have been shown wrong, success is defined down to stability in Iraq, something we might achieve someday if we wait long enough. When one defines success so far down as saying that if stability EVER comes to Iraq, then we’ve succeeded, the silliness of the claim is self-evident. In terms of domestic politics and international affairs, Iraq has been a disaster for the US, and especially for the Republican party and conservatism. Iran is stronger in the Mideast, the Democrats are much stronger in the US, Russia is flexing its muscle and woeing Europe and China, and the US moves down the ladder in terms of relevance on the world stage. Meanwhile the Taliban is resurgent in Afghanistan and the real enemies — al qaeda and Islamic extremists — are laughing. Yeah. Success.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
Results of Iraq: what was to be a fast war with a rebuilt pro-American Iraq greeting us as liberators turned into a five years and counting slog, with Iraq torn by ethnic violence, ethnic cleansing creating communities where stability comes from the fact ethnic groups are kept separated by barriers. I know the barriers are being torn down, but really, at this point I have to reach for anything I can get. The US military is overstretched, the public has (thankfully) soured on military adventurism so it is clear that future Presidents won’t be able at least in the next 20 or so years engage in similar fiascos, and that alone causes me to have wet dreams. The US is weakened internationally, facing $100 a barrell oil and a dollar declining rapidly in value. If only we had left Saddam in place, I’m sure he would have figured out how to get around the whole embargo thing by now and be selling oil by the millions of barrels to the Europeans, which would have kept down the price and taught America an even harder lesson in staying out of the Middle East. Which after all is what my side just aches to see - a humbled US that won’t ever challenge those underprivileged brown people over there, because their culture has its own points, many of them vastly superior to ours. Especially our culture of actually expecting people to be grown-up and accepting responsibility for their actions.

The President’s unpopularity caused him not only to lose his GOP majority, but his entire effort to create an "opportunity society" crashed and burned. The fact that he beat John Kerry like a drum in 2004 is beside the point. He never got to try out his market oriented reforms, and though there’s zero evidence he really wanted to go in that direction, I’d still like to point to that and say "nyah, nyah, nyah" at you clueless libertarian types that frequent this blog. And thanks to Iraq, the Democrats are in a position to assure that perhaps those reforms never get tried, thank goodness. Meanwhile, the GOP majority is sacrificed not only in Congress, but in general, as thanks to Iraq, America moves leftward. I know some of you blame our educational system for the leftward move, but I can assure you that we in the educational system are totally unbiased and would never attempt to move society one way or the other.

Meanwhile, over five years into it, as all the goals and predictions that had been set have been shown wrong. Of course, some of those wrong predications, such as 10,000 Americans dying in the invasion, were made by my side, but still, our vague warnings of how bad things were going to be turned out to be correct. I know it took us a long time to work with our friends in the media to slant the news and embolden the terrorists to make that happen, but the bigger goal of a completely emasculated America and subsequent leftist domination of every sphere in society has been promoted. Success is defined down to stability in Iraq, something we might achieve someday if we wait long enough. When one defines success so far down as saying that if stability EVER comes to Iraq, then we’ve succeeded, the silliness of the claim is self-evident. Well, self-evident to me, because I just made up such a wonderful strawman and I can’t think offhand of anyone who really believes that stability itself is the goal, but it’s a convenient strawman, and let me tell you, I need something to help me get past the fact that I didn’t think the insurgency would ever calm down, so I need some reassurance that since it did, it’s not that important anyway. In terms of domestic politics and international affairs, Iraq has been a disaster for the US, and especially for the Republican party and conservatism. Thank goodness for that at least. It would have so much better if we had just listened to the wise Europeans and geniuses such as Jimmy Carter. The Middle East would be well on its way to becoming a multicultural paradise like Europe, and they would have had no reason at all to do any more terrorism in the US because they would have been busy playing with their fluffy puppies. Iran is stronger in the Mideast, and that would have certainly never happened if you listened to we wise leftists, though offhand I can’t think of a single thing our side would have done that would have made a lick of difference. Anyway, the Democrats are much stronger in the US, despite the clear mediocrity of their presidential candidates. Russia is flexing its muscle and woeing Europe and China, and I’m sure they will fall right under the siren song spell of Putin. I mean, those authoritarian types are just so sexy. And the US moves down the ladder in terms of relevance on the world stage, and we leftists try to contain our secret pleasure at that. Meanwhile the Taliban is resurgent in Afghanistan and the real enemies — al qaeda and Islamic extremists — are laughing. The ones that haven’t been vaporized, I mean. Yeah. Success.
 
Written By: Ott Scerb
URL: http://cluelessprof.maine.edu
*sigh*
It was so peaceful here for awhile.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
The US military is overstretched, the public has (thankfully) soured on military adventurism so it is clear that future Presidents won’t be able at least in the next 20 or so years engage in similar fiascos, and the US is weakened internationally, facing $100 a barrell oil and a dollar declining rapidly in value.
-If the public has supposedly become opposed to sending the military into harm’s way, why are so many people so enthusiastic about a presidential candidate who has publically stated he would unilaterally attack Pakistan and deploy troops to intervene in the civil war in Sudan? Maybe the public’s not listening. As for the price of oil and the decline of the dollar, that’s greatly unrelated to the war and you know it.
The President’s unpopularity caused him not only to lose his GOP majority, but his entire effort to create an "opportunity society" crashed and burned. He never got to try out his market oriented reforms, and thanks to Iraq, the Democrats are in a position to assure that perhaps those reforms never get tried. Meanwhile, the GOP majority is sacrificed not only in Congress, but in general, as thanks to Iraq, America moves leftward.
-If the Republican members of the House and the Senate hadn’t turned their backs on the principles that got them elected, the makeup of the two houses would look quite a bit different. Small government and fiscal conservatism fell by the wayside and well-publicized corruption among some members of the GOP left a good portion of the party and sympathetic independents wondering just what the heck had happened. Dissent among some groups over the problems in Iraq was only the icing on the cake.
Meanwhile, over five years into it, as all the goals and predictions that had been set have been shown wrong, success is defined down to stability in Iraq, something we might achieve someday if we wait long enough.
-Yeah, ’cause the military’s just hanging out at the Iraqi 7-11, marking time, reading the magazines without paying and cruising up and down the block ad nauseum. Significant changes were made, and some fruit is coming to bear. Predictions are one thing, responding to changing conditions quite another. I’d hate to see you in a business setting, Doc.
When one defines success so far down as saying that if stability EVER comes to Iraq, then we’ve succeeded, the silliness of the claim is self-evident. In terms of domestic politics and international affairs, Iraq has been a disaster for the US, and especially for the Republican party and conservatism.
-The war simply gives the world an outlet for hatred that existed long before the war. Maybe my memory is faulty, but I don’t remember the world at large being especially enamored of us before the invasion.
Iran is stronger in the Mideast,
-Maybe, maybe not. Ahmadinejad’s grip on power is fairly tenuous, especially given the state of the Iranian economy.
the Democrats are much stronger in the US,
-Are you complaining? If so, there’s hope for you yet.
Russia is flexing its muscle and woeing Europe and China,
-Do you actually believe that Russian nationalism didn’t exist before 2003? C’mon.
and the US moves down the ladder in terms of relevance on the world stage. Meanwhile the Taliban is resurgent in Afghanistan and the real enemies — al qaeda and Islamic extremists — are laughing. Yeah. Success.
-Al Qaeda in Iraq probably isn’t in much of a jovial mood, seeing as they’re being killed off, but I’m sure the prospect of a Democratic president running away from Iraq has given them some amount of hope.
 
Written By: InebriatedArsonist
URL: http://
As for the price of oil and the decline of the dollar, that’s greatly unrelated to the war and you know it.
I disagree completely. The US is on a decline, directly related to the fiasco in Iraq, and I don’t think you guys are facing up to reality.

Also, Iranian power is unrelated to Ahmadinejad. The power is with the Guardian Council, Ahmadinejad is a bit player. Face it, no opportunity society, the Democrats on the rise, oil prices skyrocketing, the US economy crumbling while we spend hundreds of billions on an unnecessary war, weakening us.

There is no way this can be seen as anything but a foreign policy disaster. And you know it. But it’s probably a good thing that we are learning some humility.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
But it’s probably a good thing that we are learning some humility.
May we now have your permission to get off our knees, your Holiness?

/snark
 
Written By: SShiell
URL: http://
The people not facing reality are those that think Iraq is a failure and GW is science.
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
Oh, here’s an interesting story about Iraq. Doesn’t look good.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
I disagree ... US ... decline ... fiasco ... Iraq ... not facing reality....

Iranian power ... Ahmadinejad ... Democrats on the rise ... oil prices ... US economy crumbling ... hundreds of billions ... unnecessary war ... weakening....

... no way ... foreign policy disaster ... you know it ... good thing ... learning humility....
 
Written By: Posting robot ERB-1
URL: http://teacherreplacementlab.maine.edu
The US is on a decline, directly related to the fiasco in Iraq, and I don’t think you guys are facing up to reality.
-Yeah, the dollar decline isn’t related to our credit problems, the looming federal entitlement spending, our current account deficit, fears about market volatility, having a low savings-to-spending ratio, etc. Overspending is part of the problem, but our Iraqi excursion is far from the sole cause of our yearly budget deficit.
Also, Iranian power is unrelated to Ahmadinejad. The power is with the Guardian Council, Ahmadinejad is a bit player.
-Ahmadinejad is far from a puppet. He has extensive authority to set government policy, especially given Khamenei’s indifference to politics over the past years.
Face it, no opportunity society, the Democrats on the rise, oil prices skyrocketing, the US economy crumbling while we spend hundreds of billions on an unnecessary war, weakening us.
-The easiest way to deal with oil prices would be to lower gasoline taxes, but given the Robin Hood attitude among Democrats that’s a rather unlikely move. We could open new areas to exploration, but again, that runs counter to the views of the Democratic base.
There is no way this can be seen as anything but a foreign policy disaster.
-Only for someone with a mindset stuck in reverse.
 
Written By: InebriatedArsonist
URL: http://
Oh, here’s an interesting story about Iraq. Doesn’t look good.
As usual, we can rely on Erb to link us to another Liberal Hack. Fred Kaplan? You gotta be joking me. Kapln wrote a book so full of holes, he couldn’t keep it in print for a year - you know the one, you keep quoting from it on a regular basis -"Daydream Believers - How a Few Grand Ideas Wrecked American Power." And you send us to read his crap and hold him up as your expert? LOL!

Why don’t you refer us to one of your other stalwarts such as Carter, Murtha, Cole, or any number of your other subject matter experts that you rely on. But Kaplan? He’s never been to Iraq, much less ever served in anything more military than helping himself to another piece of pie.

Kaplan, along with most of the rest of the NY Times dung heap, has made a career of being a Bush attack dog from the very beginning of the administration. Remember his article "Rolling Blunder" regarding the Bush administration’s diplomatic strategy for containing North Korea. For all of Kaplan’s whining, Bush has been the only administration since Reagan to keep a leash on Song Jung Il and frankly makes the Clinton Administration actions in the region seem sophomoric at best.

Bottom Line? If Kaplan says things are grim then the atmosphere over there must be better than I could have even imaqined.
 
Written By: SShiell
URL: http://
I need to offer an apology to QandO readers. One of our early AI experiments, the Emotionless Robotic Bloviator, version 1 (known as ERB-1, for short), was accidentally given Internet access.

Normally, we only allow one of our later experiments, which has been masquerading as a professor, access to the Internet. A mistake on the part of a researcher today activated an earlier version for a short time.

We realize our later version still has a very mechanical and repetitive posting style. We’re working on that. Please bear with us. And be assured that neither version has yet reached the point where anyone could possibly be persuaded by their posts, so our experimentation is perfectly safe.


Justin Case
Director, Turing Studies
Teacher Replacement Lab
University of Maine
 
Written By: Justin Case
URL: http://teacherreplacementlab.maine.edu
As usual, we can rely on Erb to link us to another Liberal Hack.
Reality bites. You can’t refute my post, but people can throw out silly impotent insults. Delicious.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
-Ahmadinejad is far from a puppet. He has extensive authority to set government policy, especially given Khamenei’s indifference to politics over the past years.
You’re contradicting what most experts say about Iran. Can you give me evidence to support your assertion?
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
"I need to offer an apology to QandO readers. One of our early AI experiments, the Emotionless Robotic..."

LOL.
Absolutely marvelous, thanks.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
It’s interesting that Erb is still stuck on the Iraq-is-a-failure meme. Most others on the left simply want to discuss other things, and are trying to figure out how they can take credit for success in Iraq.

 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
Erbie, I’ll tell ya what’s delicious. It’s watching you get pwned so often. And then seeing that you’re so clueless you don’t even realize it. That never stops being funny.
 
Written By: Grocky
URL: http://
Erbie, I’ll tell ya what’s delicious. It’s watching you get pwned so often. And then seeing that you’re so clueless you don’t even realize it. That never stops being funny.
Yet in the real world, my view is the majority. And it is in accord with the facts. Reality bites, so you might be comfortable sticking in blogworld.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
Yet in the real world, my view is the majority.
First rule of debating, Erb, the majority postion does not equate to the right position. The majority of American were in favor of the invasion of Iraq back in 2003 - about 75% if the polls could be believed. So?

Second rule of debating - question your own sources for holes in their positions. You continue to use partisan liberal hacks as supportive of your positions and you wonder why the majority of the folks here think you are full of sh*t? I think your positions and the linked wupport you use would be very acceptable to readers of the Huffington Post, Daily KOS, Democratic Underground, or Firedog Lake - and you wonder why most of the readers here turn away from you?

Even the usual Trolls here avoid you - that says it all.

 
Written By: SShiell
URL: http://

 
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