we are going to track you down like a chicken and kill you Posted by: McQ
on Sunday, January 16, 2005
That was the threat made against a Coptic Christian family from Egypt who lived in New Jersey and apparently debated with Muslims on-line in a chat room.
The family of 4 was found murdered in their home yesterday. All the family's valuables were still there, leading authorities to suspect a motive other than robbery. Apparently authorities believe there may be a religious connection to the murders.
An indication of that was the way the 15 year old daughter, Sylvia, was killed:
A family member who viewed photos of the bloodbath said Sylvia seemed to have taken the most savage punishment.
"When we saw the pictures, you could tell that they were hurt really, really bad in the face; especially Sylvia," said Milad Garas, the high-school sophomore's great-uncle.
The heartless killer not only slit Sylvia's throat, but also sliced a huge gash in her chest and stabbed her in the wrist, where she had a tattoo of a Coptic cross.
A couple of things jump out at me which say they may very well be on the right track:
A)Everything I've read about the Muslim fanatics (and make no mistake, if this is a religious killing, it was done by fanatics) out there seems to indicate a preference for slitting the throats of "infidels" (when they're not beheading them).
B) The Coptic cross tattoo on the wrist of the girl had been stabbed. While you may find defensive type wounds on a wrist of a stabbing victim, the stabbing of the cross without any other such injuries to the wrist would argue against defense being the cause of the wound.
Apparently a Muslim and Coptic Christian community in that area have coexisted in a fairly friendly manner over the years. There's obvious concern that that relationship may be in jeopardy.
"I am concerned for the safety of our community," said Ayed, who knew Hossam for 30 years. "People are scared because one family was slain like cows," said Moheb Ghabour, publisher of a local newspaper for the Coptic community.
Osama Hassan, director of the Islamic Center of Jersey City, described the relationship between Copts and Muslims as cooperative if not friendly.
"I think there might be people that can get into physical fights, but not to the point of murder," Hassan said.
Yes fgh, because you know all arabs are just bloodthirsty killers. If a few football players gang-rape a woman that must mean all football players deserve to be locked away.
Yes fgh, because you know all arabs are just bloodthirsty killers
You know what? This is their chance to prove that they aren't. I want to see the local (and national) Muslim communities react to this with more than just platitudes. I want to see them react in such a way that makes it clear that this type of thing is not to be done in the name of Islam.
And if they don't do it.....then yes, I will be quite happy to call them all bloodthirsty killers. Because they will have branded themselves with their silence.
When oh when is the world going to give Arabs the smackdown they need?
Yes fgh, because you know all arabs are just bloodthirsty killers. If a few football players gang-rape a woman that must mean all football players deserve to be locked away. Ignorant racist troll.
You're both wrong. Far and away most Arabs are unassuming, family oriented, honest, good people. At the same time, far and away most Arab leaders are dishonest, kleptocrat, and murderous scumbags who are in dire need of a "smackdown".
Did the US put any of them there? Surely. And now that GW Bush is beginning the process of turning them out, reversing decades of dictator-coddling Middle East policy that perhaps saw its lowlight with Jimmy Carter's Camp David accords, I for one applaud him.
I should add, somewhat more on-topic, that the murders are a message aimed at other Muslims as much as they are aimed at anyone else. Message: "We fundamentalists control Islam, the interpretation of Islam, and we control you. Step out of line, and we will kill you too. "
While it is unfair for fgh to tar all Muslims with that Brush, it is unfair for Matt to ignore certain elements within the Muslim subculture that he considiers it too impolitic to name perhaps. Yet these elements seek power first over all Muslims and second over all kuffir.
So now I come back to my other comment above: it's about Muslims seeking to subjugate other Muslims through intimidation and murder. If you're talking about Arabs in teh Middle East or innocent victims back here at home. Looks like Bush was right when he said that the terrorists are against us because they hate our freedom, doesn't it?
Muslim!=Arab. I took offense to fgh's using this terrible event as an excuse to spew ignorant nonsense about "arabs". He clearly wasn't talking about the corrupt and kleptocratic leaders of arab countries since the post had nothing to do with that. It has nothing to do with being "impolitic"; it's called smacking down the fools who I unfortunately find myself traveling with sometimes (being rather hawkish myself).
I am quite aware that there are not enough moderate voices speaking out loudly and proudly in the Muslim community, much of which I would probably chalk up to fear (I agree with pdq about the message these things send to other Muslims as well). But those of us who want to get others to acknowledge the major dangers of fanatical Islamism are not served by people spewing generalizations and insinuating that all of those people deserve to be smacked around. Let's keep it real, can we?
A close friend of Hossam Armanious and relatives of the family murdered in New Jersey have revealed the following: Shortly after the murders, members of the Egyptian consulate went to visit the family to encourage them to keep quiet. And many family members have obeyed, saying nothing to reporters or anyone else. However, two family members and another Copt viewed the bodies at the funeral home. One of these eyewitnesses said that he clearly saw that the family members had not suffered stab wounds to the throat, as the prosecutors report states, but rather the following:
A. Both adults, Hossam and Amal, had a horizontal slit across the throat. Below the slit, on the left, right and middle of the throat were three holes, big enough so that one could place a finger in each hole. According to the eyewitness, it was as if the assailant(s) took a knife and turned it repeatedly in a circular fashion, as if to screw holes into the victims necks.
B. The two young girls, Sylvia (15) and Monica (8), also had a horizontal slits in their throats, along with two holes bored below the slits, one on the right and one on the left sides of their necks. The holes were similar to those on their parents necks. C. The eyewitness said although the bodies of the victims were all covered, he was able to see the arms of the little girl Monica. Although the tattoo of the cross inside Monicas wrist was not defaced, he saw that her wrists were cut. He was not able to see the wrists of the other victims to see if the crosses on their wrists were defaced.
D. Though the family wants to reserve judgment until the results of the case are released, they did say that the way the four family members were bound and gagged and the way their throats were slit with holes carved is similar to executions that are shown on al-Jazeera. The American public is not aware of this because the details of the executions are not often described in news accounts.
Amal Garass father said that (contrary to many news reports and CAIRs press release) none of the familys jewelry was taken, and that Amal owned some quite expensive pieces that were not touched. At the time of her murder, Amal was wearing a ring worth $3,500 that was not taken. Garass father also has been speaking with the detectives and the prosecutor on the case. He was told that the results of the autopsy would not be ready until March 14. However, an inside source in one of New Jerseys police departments said that the results of autopsy and toxicology reports are known within 48 hours after the bodies are discovered. This source has worked on such cases for many years. He said that the department knows the results, but as in similar cases intends to wait a month or two before they release them to the family. During that time long reports are written to cross the ts and dot the is for the family, but the final results are not much different from what is discovered within the first 48 hours. So all of the press reports about waiting for the prosecutors findings on the autopsies are nonsense. Though the investigators are looking at Sylvias computer and other evidence, the findings on the autopsy for the most part are already in. A reporter who is closely following this case said that this delay was because the police and prosecutor want this case to go away. They want things to cool down. Thats why they set the autopsy date as March 14, two months after the murders.
It is still possible that this wasnt a Muslim hate crime. The problem is that investigators have not taken the necessary steps to ensure a fair review of the evidence. There are too many holes here, too many inconsistencies in the official story. Too many obvious tasks have not been done: an Armanious family friend with whom I spoke, who gave me names and motives of possible perpetrators, is still waiting for a call from investigators. Investigators seem to be following dead ends more assiduously than live leads. A Muslim has told police in Jersey City that there is an Islamic custom in Egypt: a life for a life. He said that is what may have happened in this case. Some news reports are referring to this when they say theyre looking into the familys activities in Egypt before they came to the U.S. in 1997. Said prosecutor Edward DeFazio, It could be that it's a vendetta that might go back to the old country. Were going to try to look into that. However, those close to Hossam Armanious maintain that he didnt have any enemies, and certainly never took anyones life in Egypt or here; nor did anyone in his family.
This background information may illuminate why this investigation has been so curiously lacking: There are a number of clergy in the Coptic community who are in bed with the Egyptian government. Some even act as agents for the Mubarak regime. Coptic clergy who wont cooperate are often exiled into the Egyptian desert, where they live a very difficult life.
Many Coptic women have been kidnapped by Muslims. Some of these women are being kidnapped with the help of the compromised clergy. The priest hears a girls confession and then passes on information he hears there to Muslim kidnappers, who decide which girls they want to take. Many of these women are forced to marry Muslim men and are never seen again. A number of Muslims have infiltrated the Coptic community, pretending to be Christians in order to gather information. Jersey City has a large number of Copts. Some of this infiltration has taken place there; some of the Coptic clergy there are also compromised. However, most Copts trust their clergy wholeheartedly, making it easy for the moles to operate.
What do those compromised clergymen want? The answer possibly has to do with a fact revealed by a number of other sources, including one within a New Jersey police department: the Egyptian government is pressuring the police and prosecutor to make this case disappear. Where are the mainstream media reporters contacting the Egyptian consulate to find out whether or not this is true?
f**k copts that put the reputation of good muslims and the motherland of egypt in the mud by making exaggerations. yes there are some in muslims in egypt that take the sick extreme view. perhaps a thousand or three in upper egypt. islam is peaceful. whatever anyone may say. dont look at september 11th. that was wrong. all we want to do is eat, sleep, raise family, learn, laugh and love. in el mansourah (my town in egypt) we live side by side in peace. we celebrate their christmas with them by going out into the street and being friendlt and supportive and joking in the egyptian way. and they come out in eid and play with us football and eat with us on the floor as equal and they we spend the night laughing and joking. when my father used to run away from home from his father, he stayed with his christian best friend not his muslim friend. no differences between us. everyone free to himself. peace to all open minded and peaceful copts. we laugh together my brothers. peace. 1
